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The TA & Social Media

Old 07-21-2015, 10:24 PM
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Default The TA & Social Media

After reading some things on social media from unverified sources, it seems that the powers that be might still be watching us.

If so, not only are they watching, they're unhappy with a lot of the things being said on here, Facebook, and other places.

Be careful what you post. Even though truth is an absolute defense against for any statement, you might want to refrain from using people's names, and/or making threats.

What's interesting is that some of the powers that be are more interested in finding ways to control the message, and possibly holding people responsible for their social media posts, rather than figuring out why they were so off the mark with the failed TA.

Which, in light of the fact that they are the ones who chose to send their P2P group into forums, like this one, and Facebook, to intentionally mislead us as to who they were and what their intentions were, I believe our social media posts were totally responsible.

On the other hand, their posts on here, were largely, unresponsive, evasive, and misleading, which is the worst way you can behave with a pilot.

At one point, there were non-pilots on here giving us advice, as if they were pilots. We are all about trusting who people say they are and what they say. Think of the trust we have when a mechanic tells us he fixed something.

Powers that be: I heard you guys read this stuff. At this point, if you are more concerned about the social media and how you believe it, and us, defeated the TA, INSTEAD of what was actually in the TA that caused its defeat, you are off the mark AGAIN.

When asked what were the good things about the TA, the only thing your PTP guys could say was that we were getting an 8% raise and they never defended the many negative aspects of the TA. They also insulted us at every opportunity. But, their ineptness was not the reason the TA failed.

The TA was doomed, social media, or no social media, because as a group, we can read, comprehend, and communicate. It was a bad TA and the word was spread. Just like pilots found out the cockpit of the the 737 was small, long before the internet was around. After all, that's what we are trained to do, right?

Last edited by newKnow; 07-21-2015 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 07-22-2015, 01:46 AM
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As the smoke clears, it seems ALPA may have sold the 4th floor a bunch of wolf tickets.
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Old 07-22-2015, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by newKnow View Post
After reading some things on social media from unverified sources, it seems that the powers that be might still be watching us.

If so, not only are they watching, they're unhappy with a lot of the things being said on here, Facebook, and other places.

Be careful what you post. Even though truth is an absolute defense against for any statement, you might want to refrain from using people's names, and/or making threats.

What's interesting is that some of the powers that be are more interested in finding ways to control the message, and possibly holding people responsible for their social media posts, rather than figuring out why they were so off the mark with the failed TA.

Which, in light of the fact that they are the ones who chose to send their P2P group into forums, like this one, and Facebook, to intentionally mislead us as to who they were and what their intentions were, I believe our social media posts were totally responsible.

On the other hand, their posts on here, were largely, unresponsive, evasive, and misleading, which is the worst way you can behave with a pilot.

At one point, there were non-pilots on here giving us advice, as if they were pilots. We are all about trusting who people say they are and what they say. Think of the trust we have when a mechanic tells us he fixed something.

Powers that be: I heard you guys read this stuff. At this point, if you are more concerned about the social media and how you believe it, and us, defeated the TA, INSTEAD of what was actually in the TA that caused its defeat, you are off the mark AGAIN.

When asked what were the good things about the TA, the only thing your PTP guys could say was that we were getting an 8% raise and they never defended the many negative aspects of the TA. They also insulted us at every opportunity. But, their ineptness was not the reason the TA failed.

The TA was doomed, social media, or no social media, because as a group, we can read, comprehend, and communicate. It was a bad TA and the word was spread. Just like pilots found out the cockpit of the the 737 was small, long before the internet was around. After all, that's what we are trained to do, right?
Great Post!

Couldn't agree more.

I'm astounded by the arrogance of some of our elected reps who still refuse to take responsibility for failing to properly represent the cares, concerns, and goals of this pilot group. Just think of the message here....Social media is being touted as a scapegoat as to why the MEC wasn't able to control the message even with 250+ P2P firing on all cylinders and a budget of over $750,000.

The TA failed because WE, the constituents, do not understand the TA properly. That's essentially what they are saying. No one is talking about how to improve the TA or claiming personal responsibility, instead we are pu$$yfooting around what people are saying on Facebook while reps/p2p guys play the victim card.

I mean seriously, are we in high school? The sophomoric tone/behavior by some of our so-called union guys is an embarrassment.

I think this team will be the one responsible for driving our pilot group towards another representational body (DPA), unless people take personal responsibility and step down. The games council 44 is playing by delaying a recall effort isn't helping things either.
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Old 07-22-2015, 02:59 AM
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Well, should we get lawyers?
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Old 07-22-2015, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DeadHead View Post
Great Post!

Couldn't agree more.

I'm astounded by the arrogance of some of our elected reps who still refuse to take responsibility for failing to properly represent the cares, concerns, and goals of this pilot group. Just think of the message here....Social media is being touted as a scapegoat as to why the MEC wasn't able to control the message even with 250+ P2P firing on all cylinders and a budget of over $750,000.

The TA failed because WE, the constituents, do not understand the TA properly. That's essentially what they are saying. No one is talking about how to improve the TA or claiming personal responsibility, instead we are pu$$yfooting around what people are saying on Facebook while reps/p2p guys play the victim card.

I mean seriously, are we in high school? The sophomoric tone/behavior by some of our so-called union guys is an embarrassment.

I think this team will be the one responsible for driving our pilot group towards another representational body (DPA), unless people take personal responsibility and step down. The games council 44 is playing by delaying a recall effort isn't helping things either.
I think social media is a big deal, however, social media could not convince 6500 pilots to vote no on a good TA.

The TA failed because the language of the TA was just bad. Nothing more to it. Next time, if I were MD, I wouldn't publish the TA for review until after the TA passed. Just give people the negotiators notepads, they're much more rosy than the actual language.
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Old 07-22-2015, 03:05 AM
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They will try anything to avoid taking responsibility.

I loved the part where they laid out their plan going forward to add a minimum of $300 million per year to the next TA.

Oh wait.......

They wouldn't know a goal if it bit them.
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Old 07-22-2015, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid View Post
Well, should we get lawyers?
Ha. The internet is so new, it's all a grey area. But, I think this is an case where every finger they point at us, there are 3 fingers pointing back at them.

Rule:
You can't engage people on the internet, then get made that people are responding to you the internet -- even if you don't like what they are saying.

Apparently, they sent their paid, and trained operatives on sites like this and others, and don't like how we responded. Well, they should have never been sent.

Last edited by newKnow; 07-22-2015 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 07-22-2015, 08:35 AM
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TA failed because of ALPA arrogance. The TA failed because ALPA was taking care of themselves instead of representing their members. ALPA had the survey results...they knew exactly what the pilot group would accept. But instead ALPA pushed what they wanted, and their arrogance led them to believe they could convince us to accept whatever they put in front of us. Any child could look at the survey results and see that this TA was never going to pass. And even after the clear message we sent them by voting no, they still arrogantly claim that we just didn't understand what we are getting...
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Old 07-22-2015, 09:48 AM
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I have to give RW(SLC-C) some credit, he really is more out of touch than anyone else. He believes that the letters from the NO voting reps misinformed the pilot group and had those letters not been published, the TA would have passed. He really believes the pilots just didn't understand what was in the TA and had we been better informed we would have passed it.

That's a special kind of delusion.
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Old 07-22-2015, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by capncrunch View Post
I have to give RW(SLC-C) some credit, he really is more out of touch than anyone else. He believes that the letters from the NO voting reps misinformed the pilot group and had those letters not been published, the TA would have passed. He really believes the pilots just didn't understand what was in the TA and had we been better informed we would have passed it.

That's a special kind of delusion.
It is delusional and not helpful. At some point whether you believe it or not doesn't change what you have to deal with today. For example many have argued that without the punitive Treaty of Versailles at the end of WWI that Hitler wouldn't have tapped into German angst and become leader etc.

That doesn't mean anything to the guy about to storm the beaches at Normandy however. All he cares about is the upcoming conflict and not some theoretical discussion. The reps need to deal with today's issues today, not hypotheticals that may or may not have contributed to the issue.
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