So if the company was violating the contract and letting Mesa fly 777's (back when they could find pilots) for 1/4 the pay, we should have just given it to them, because we didn't want to "do it for that pay?"

Please.

Those were OUR jets OWNED by OUR scope. Those planes were heavier than the planes at the bottom of our scale already (large CRJ's) so no arbitrator in the world would have paid less than at least a bit above that, with our benefits and work rules.

We could have even worked on an LOA addressing the specific nature of those ops and work life, like positive space commutes and job specific work rules, and even allowing them to interview from the seniority list only for those positions. I'd be OK with that versus abandoning the jobs altogether like we did. We didn't even get anything for it. Pathetic.

The GV's and other heavy corporate jets were never owned by Delta. They were all charter managed aircraft. The problem with paying the GV crew like they pay the 777 pilots would be Delta would not make the money they like to make. The profit Margins are not there I guess??

The profit margins are not only not there, there is no intent to try to make money.

The jet I flew on a charter manage program cost the owner about 2.5M per year out of pocket whether it never flew or not. We put it out for charter for 400-500 hours and raised his costs about another 500K. But he made about 2M back.

So his 2.5M cost became 3M but he made almost 2M so now it was 1M out of pocket. A savings of 1M.

On a per hour cost, my boss per hour cost was around $25,000. We charted for 4500 then later 5000 per hour. The management company took 15% out but added a 15% fuel surcharge. So -$6000 per hour was great even if he lost -$1000 per hour on every charter.

To overcome an increasing maintenance cost as you operate more, which comes in chunks based on 400 hours on our jet, you needed airline like utilization that ain't never gonna happen in charter.

It wouldn't pay 777 pay, but it would pay more than the large RJ pay currently on our pay scale because they are bigger than that.

And by OWNED I mean our scope owned it. Period. That was our flying. Period. And we gave it away.

Does it matter to our scope if any given 777 is owned or leased by DL or a third party? No. If its in revenue service for DL then WE own the right to fly it. That's the point.

That was our flying and we gave it away for nothing. Now the company is blurring the lines with "regular" DL passengers and their private jets. Who knows how far this will go. What happens if a couple percent of our highest value HVC's switch over to a non union shop flying planes we used to own the scope to but gave away.

Actually.... the business model provided the pilots would PAY delta instead of the other wayround....

What was Heiko's involvement in that carve out in C12?

I don't know where he stood on that issue, but the whole way it went down was disgusting.

The union didn't even want to grieve it. At all. They didn't care. They were forced to, and I think they were surprised when they were handed a slam dunk win that would have smacked the company down and given us unlimited leverage WRT that issue (IOW those jobs were 100% ours and the company would have had no choice but to deal with us on our terms or lose that premium flying and revenue completely and forever).

It was right around C2012 time, so we just threw in an exception to allow them to legally outsource what they were already doing in violation, much like POS15's AF/KLM JV language instantly forgave 4 years of imbalance with no intention to ever honor their end of the deal, and then still allowed them to go another 4% block hours lower than even that, forever, and be in complete compliance. :mad:

The large illegal (WRT our contract) corporate jet issue that came to a head in 2012 was a fight they never even wanted to begin with, and when some rogue hawks forced the issue, they were trumped by us simply giving it away with nothing in return because we (the ivory tower brain trust head shed) never wanted it to begin with.