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Old 10-23-2015, 05:59 AM   #1
alto
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Default New TA

I'm just curious, with over 8,000 no voters surely someone can give me their take as to how this TA will play out. Not ONE pilot has been able to explain what they EXPECT to get out of a new and improved deal with DAL. Just a LOT of bad ass chest thumping.

What raises? (%) What retirement? (%) What Profit Sharing? (%) What sick leave (I hope to keep the C12 setup) and just as important, when do you expect this to occur and what are the odds of this happening?

We also need a plan to make this happen, just WANTING something is not a plan...
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:17 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by pileit View Post
I'm just curious, with over 8,000 no voters surely someone can give me their take as to how this TA will play out. Not ONE pilot has been able to explain what they EXPECT to get out of a new and improved deal with DAL. Just a LOT of bad ass chest thumping.

What raises? (%) What retirement? (%) What Profit Sharing? (%) What sick leave (I hope to keep the C12 setup) and just as important, when do you expect this to occur and what are the odds of this happening?

We also need a plan to make this happen, just WANTING something is not a plan...
Sorry, more if a lurker, but let the new guy take this one. Do you normally post comments without doing any research? take the 5 minutes of your life you just wasted posting this, and look through the threads, there are many many many examples. Then come back here with a point (I.e agree/disagree).... "Chest thumping" that's rich coming from someone who doesn't even attempt to find their own answer.
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:24 AM   #3
alto
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In the time it took you to be sarcastic & condescending you could have typed a reply to the question instead. How about just facts and answers instead of sarcasm. You are making my point for me. So...you don't have an answer I take it?
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:25 AM   #4
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I think it's been made pretty clear, actually, by the election of a new MEC chairman who has publicly stated that restoration is the goal. In case you are not familiar, all DL employees have been made whole since bankruptcy and then some, with one exception- the pilots. Management has far exceeded restoration, and the shareholders are getting huge payouts. Billions are being spent on stock buybacks. The pilots want a contract that approximates the value of the contract they had before bankruptcy. It doesn't have to be an exact copy. But it needs significant improvement from what was in the TA to approach that level.
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:34 AM   #5
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I think it's been made pretty clear, actually, by the election of a new MEC chairman who has publicly stated that restoration is the goal. In case you are not familiar, all DL employees have been made whole since bankruptcy and then some, with one exception- the pilots. Management has far exceeded restoration, and the shareholders are getting huge payouts. Billions are being spent on stock buybacks. The pilots want a contract that approximates the value of the contract they had before bankruptcy. It doesn't have to be an exact copy. But it needs significant improvement from what was in tyhe TA to approach that level.
Cheers mate! Well said.
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:35 AM   #6
alto
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Thanks, I am very familiar with the give backs I have lived through them all along with stagnation. Not fun. I ALSO want restoration. BUT I am truly curious what NO voters believe we can actually achieve. That continues to be an elusive question...what numbers do you need to see for a YES vote? Thanks.
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:37 AM   #7
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Pileit,

Yes, I understand it's frustrating. And slow. And inefficient. Just like our democratic Republic system. But union representation and the contract negotiation process exists as a series of checks and balances to protect us - chiefly from the Company, but also from ourselves, and sometimes our leaders. Sure, it's sometimes ugly tedious, but ultimately it's for our own safety.

So, yes, while it seems we are deep into the "process", in reality we haven't even reached the amenable date, which is in December, so an effort to re-group now and organize a proper re-attack will pay dividends long into the future. Rushing into the process without the appropriate plan is what got us into this slightly sticky mess.

We'll take as much time as we need to do it right.
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:38 AM   #8
alto
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Again, restoration is MY goal too. But we didn't have profit sharing back in C2K as well as a number of other items. What will it take today including profit sharing to be considered "restoration"?

I am not suggesting rushing it at all...I also want to get it right. BUT since July 1st I have lost $8k plus retirement of 15% on that (which is fine if a MUCH better deal is on the way).

The question continues to be (referring to your last sentence) How much time? And what % constitutes "doing it right"? Those are very nebulous goals. I don't know how you meet those goals without numbers attached to them...thanks.
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:45 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by flyallnite View Post
I think it's been made pretty clear, actually, by the election of a new MEC chairman who has publicly stated that restoration is the goal. In case you are not familiar, all DL employees have been made whole since bankruptcy and then some, with one exception- the pilots. Management has far exceeded restoration, and the shareholders are getting huge payouts. Billions are being spent on stock buybacks. The pilots want a contract that approximates the value of the contract they had before bankruptcy. It doesn't have to be an exact copy. But it needs significant improvement from what was in the TA to approach that level.
You might find that the thousands of employees at Delta who saw their jobs eliminated and were given the choice of no job or work for DGS or DSS or the name of the month for outsourcing would disagree with you on being made whole.
You might also take a look at the retirement program they now have verses what they had before chapter 11.
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:51 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by pileit View Post
Thanks, I am very familiar with the give backs I have lived through them all along with stagnation. Not fun. I ALSO want restoration. BUT I am truly curious what NO voters believe we can actually achieve. That continues to be an elusive question...what numbers do you need to see for a YES vote? Thanks.
There is no number - it's the whole package, which includes QOL issues and productivity concessions.


The big picture was our Union went into an expedited negotiation, lulled into a false sense of security, and expected a gentlemanly agreement where each side asks for +10% over what they expect to settle at, then meet in the middle.


The problem was the Company asked +80% over, and if we stay in the process, now we end up meeting at -35% under. We let ourselves get bamboozled.
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