New TA
10-23-2015, 05:59 AM
#1
alto
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: M88
Posts: 50
New TA
I'm just curious, with over 8,000 no voters surely someone can give me their take as to how this TA will play out. Not ONE pilot has been able to explain what they EXPECT to get out of a new and improved deal with DAL. Just a LOT of bad ass chest thumping.
What raises? (%) What retirement? (%) What Profit Sharing? (%) What sick leave (I hope to keep the C12 setup) and just as important, when do you expect this to occur and what are the odds of this happening?
We also need a plan to make this happen, just WANTING something is not a plan...
What raises? (%) What retirement? (%) What Profit Sharing? (%) What sick leave (I hope to keep the C12 setup) and just as important, when do you expect this to occur and what are the odds of this happening?
We also need a plan to make this happen, just WANTING something is not a plan...
10-23-2015, 06:17 AM
#2
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: systems analyst
Posts: 757
Originally Posted by pileit
I'm just curious, with over 8,000 no voters surely someone can give me their take as to how this TA will play out. Not ONE pilot has been able to explain what they EXPECT to get out of a new and improved deal with DAL. Just a LOT of bad ass chest thumping.
What raises? (%) What retirement? (%) What Profit Sharing? (%) What sick leave (I hope to keep the C12 setup) and just as important, when do you expect this to occur and what are the odds of this happening?
We also need a plan to make this happen, just WANTING something is not a plan...
What raises? (%) What retirement? (%) What Profit Sharing? (%) What sick leave (I hope to keep the C12 setup) and just as important, when do you expect this to occur and what are the odds of this happening?
We also need a plan to make this happen, just WANTING something is not a plan...
10-23-2015, 06:24 AM
#3
alto
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: M88
Posts: 50
In the time it took you to be sarcastic & condescending you could have typed a reply to the question instead. How about just facts and answers instead of sarcasm. You are making my point for me. So...you don't have an answer I take it?
10-23-2015, 06:25 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
I think it's been made pretty clear, actually, by the election of a new MEC chairman who has publicly stated that restoration is the goal. In case you are not familiar, all DL employees have been made whole since bankruptcy and then some, with one exception- the pilots. Management has far exceeded restoration, and the shareholders are getting huge payouts. Billions are being spent on stock buybacks. The pilots want a contract that approximates the value of the contract they had before bankruptcy. It doesn't have to be an exact copy. But it needs significant improvement from what was in the TA to approach that level.
10-23-2015, 06:34 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,322
Originally Posted by flyallnite
I think it's been made pretty clear, actually, by the election of a new MEC chairman who has publicly stated that restoration is the goal. In case you are not familiar, all DL employees have been made whole since bankruptcy and then some, with one exception- the pilots. Management has far exceeded restoration, and the shareholders are getting huge payouts. Billions are being spent on stock buybacks. The pilots want a contract that approximates the value of the contract they had before bankruptcy. It doesn't have to be an exact copy. But it needs significant improvement from what was in tyhe TA to approach that level.
10-23-2015, 06:35 AM
#6
alto
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: M88
Posts: 50
Thanks, I am very familiar with the give backs I have lived through them all along with stagnation. Not fun. I ALSO want restoration. BUT I am truly curious what NO voters believe we can actually achieve. That continues to be an elusive question...what numbers do you need to see for a YES vote? Thanks.
10-23-2015, 06:37 AM
#7
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Joined APC: May 2009
Position: Gold-Braided Lesser French Fort Commander
Posts: 137
Pileit,
Yes, I understand it's frustrating. And slow. And inefficient. Just like our democratic Republic system. But union representation and the contract negotiation process exists as a series of checks and balances to protect us - chiefly from the Company, but also from ourselves, and sometimes our leaders. Sure, it's sometimes ugly tedious, but ultimately it's for our own safety.
So, yes, while it seems we are deep into the "process", in reality we haven't even reached the amenable date, which is in December, so an effort to re-group now and organize a proper re-attack will pay dividends long into the future. Rushing into the process without the appropriate plan is what got us into this slightly sticky mess.
We'll take as much time as we need to do it right.
Yes, I understand it's frustrating. And slow. And inefficient. Just like our democratic Republic system. But union representation and the contract negotiation process exists as a series of checks and balances to protect us - chiefly from the Company, but also from ourselves, and sometimes our leaders. Sure, it's sometimes ugly tedious, but ultimately it's for our own safety.
So, yes, while it seems we are deep into the "process", in reality we haven't even reached the amenable date, which is in December, so an effort to re-group now and organize a proper re-attack will pay dividends long into the future. Rushing into the process without the appropriate plan is what got us into this slightly sticky mess.
We'll take as much time as we need to do it right.
10-23-2015, 06:38 AM
#8
alto
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: M88
Posts: 50
Again, restoration is MY goal too. But we didn't have profit sharing back in C2K as well as a number of other items. What will it take today including profit sharing to be considered "restoration"?
I am not suggesting rushing it at all...I also want to get it right. BUT since July 1st I have lost $8k plus retirement of 15% on that (which is fine if a MUCH better deal is on the way).
The question continues to be (referring to your last sentence) How much time? And what % constitutes "doing it right"? Those are very nebulous goals. I don't know how you meet those goals without numbers attached to them...thanks.
I am not suggesting rushing it at all...I also want to get it right. BUT since July 1st I have lost $8k plus retirement of 15% on that (which is fine if a MUCH better deal is on the way).
The question continues to be (referring to your last sentence) How much time? And what % constitutes "doing it right"? Those are very nebulous goals. I don't know how you meet those goals without numbers attached to them...thanks.
10-23-2015, 06:45 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,262
Originally Posted by flyallnite
I think it's been made pretty clear, actually, by the election of a new MEC chairman who has publicly stated that restoration is the goal. In case you are not familiar, all DL employees have been made whole since bankruptcy and then some, with one exception- the pilots. Management has far exceeded restoration, and the shareholders are getting huge payouts. Billions are being spent on stock buybacks. The pilots want a contract that approximates the value of the contract they had before bankruptcy. It doesn't have to be an exact copy. But it needs significant improvement from what was in the TA to approach that level.
You might also take a look at the retirement program they now have verses what they had before chapter 11.
10-23-2015, 06:51 AM
#10
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Joined APC: May 2009
Position: Gold-Braided Lesser French Fort Commander
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by pileit
Thanks, I am very familiar with the give backs I have lived through them all along with stagnation. Not fun. I ALSO want restoration. BUT I am truly curious what NO voters believe we can actually achieve. That continues to be an elusive question...what numbers do you need to see for a YES vote? Thanks.
The big picture was our Union went into an expedited negotiation, lulled into a false sense of security, and expected a gentlemanly agreement where each side asks for +10% over what they expect to settle at, then meet in the middle.
The problem was the Company asked +80% over, and if we stay in the process, now we end up meeting at -35% under. We let ourselves get bamboozled.
