United TA blows Delta TA out of the water
 

United's new extension: 13% increase immediately followed by 3% and 2% for a 2 year contract extension. Basic math is 18% pay increase over two years with NO CONCESSIONS. No profit sharing reductions, sick call BS or scope issues. it also includes DAL pay match (if our pay ever goes higher than theirs they match it).

This looks incredible compared to the turd we were presented with.

This makes me so glad we didn't vote in our Contract with TONS of concessions.

Discuss.

The moakies will somehow say that we still voted down the most lucrative contract in airline history... moakies... hell, Donatelli told the press that... our own very MEC chairman. Frickin amazing, isn't it?

Good job Unidental!

Tail

I'm withholding judgement until I see it but there will certainly be a concession of something. UAL management didn't approach ALPA to offer more money in exchange for nothing. What they want is ALPAs blessing to seek waivers on a bunch of ULH flying with the 787s. Is it going to be enough money to overlook many other (reserve section) shortcomings for 2 more years? Are there any triggers to revisit other sections early? Yearly raises after the amendable date so if Oscar and company drag their feet we still get raises? Gotta see it first.

In Summary:

Delta Contract 2015 was an approx. 15.5% pay raise over 3 years once backing out the 5.25% profit sharing concession. It came attached with a significant net negative package of concessions.

United's AIP is a 16% pay raise in year 1 with some improvements in other areas. It did not address other contractual wants with respect to scheduling but also didn't contain any further concessions.

Across most categories United and Americans pay rates will be appr. 13% Higher than Delta's beginning Jan 1, 2016. With our 7ER category lagging only 8% on the low end and our 767-400 rates lagging 20% on the high end.

And of course, this doesn't account for the subsequent 3% annual raises and "me too" clauses that protect both United and American's standing as having equal to or higher payrates than their competitive set. Meanwhile, pay raises have discontinued for Delta pilots. And Delta's "me too" clause has the cumbersome requirement of giving 30%+ non-contract employees a raise in order to trigger raises for pilots.

Stop..
There has not been ANY official word what this AIP is, yet people keep posting numbers.
For the record, the "unofficial" release (leak) stated 16% on 1 Jan 16, then 3% and 3%. But it's suppose to be a 2 year extension which should have rates to 1 Jan 19!?
[We currently have payrates for 1 Jan 2017]

Now we are "hearing" 13%, 3% and 2%.. and today I even read it's 13%, 2% and 2%?!

It was (in my opinion) a good thing that you guys voted down your TA. Funding payraises through Profit Sharing is BS. But the Sick Leave, LCA Trip holdouts and JV Scope changes were really a no go..
But until we really know what is going on with the United Extension, I wouldn't rush to gloat about how great the deal is.
Also, there is a rumor going around that there is some sort of formula tied into the 'Delta Me Too' clause.

Give it 2-3 weeks, and we should know if it's worthy of a Yes vote.

Always
Motch

We don't need no stinking official word. We like to speculate on rumors, and if we can't find any rumors to speculate, we start just making $hlt up. That's how we roll. :)

I'm kidding. I do hope though that you get a nice contract extension, though. It'll make our fight a little easier, too. Good luck.

Delta management forgot just how important "happy pilots" are to the operation...

I agree with this statement +1

Huh...when has a C-5 flight engineer ever been concerned with facts? 😅

Frohe Weihnachten Motch...

This brings up a VERY interesting point.. something I've started to wonder about recently. What does it mean for Delta Pilots and what does it mean for ALPA National?

Does a YES raise up the bar higher than what you guys initially turned down? Or would your management turn around and just match UAL while keeping your Profit Sharing the same?
[Matching us would actually be a big FU to the UAL Pilot group with regards to the 'Delta Me Too clause']*
At the same time, would a YES on our side mean no new CBA for us until 2019/2020.. but would you guys already have 1 and maybe 2 new contracts during that same time? [if you got one in 2016, and then another one in 2019/2020?]

And what about a NO. Does that throw the ball back in your court first? Or does UAL management team try to sweeten the deal? Do they try and open full Contract talks in May (or earlier) due to needing relief on FRMS?
Does DAL management see what's going on over here and try and push a deal first?!

There are DEFINITELY long range implications for our 2 pilot groups with this extensions..

And then there's ALPA National. After you're failed TA, how much money did ALPA spending pushing a TA that (obviously) went against the wishes of your pilot group? It will be interesting to see what kind of sales job happens on our side IF the extension passes our MEC.
Since ALPA National runs on all of our dues money, if we are looking at a 13/3/2 deal then they just increased their income greatly while pushing the costs of negotiating a new UAL CBA down the road.. something to also think about~

Our MEC put out a Blastmail this evening which hints at not seeing anything for a while (I'm betting no vote until after the Holidays, if it comes to that).. but also making mention of the Forums. Stating - "Nearly all of the forum posts, blogs, email threads, media reports, and other speculations are wrong, in part or in whole, as no one has the benefit of the final language of the TA."
That implies that some of what is out there is true.. but which parts?

It's a good thing these clowns weren't involved in the Allied invasion to Liberate Europe back in '44... Ze Germans would have known we were coming!

Interesting times~
Fly Safe, Fly Professionally and Fly The Contract
Always
Motch

* you guys are still the highest paid out there.. when you actually figure what your earned based on hourly wages, Profit Sharing and 401k vs. Hours worked/credit!

;-)
Still trying to do my job.. keeping my pilots out of trouble!

And Merry Christmas to you to, my unknown friend!
lol

Always
Motch

There isn't nor has there ever been any me too clause in our JCBA at AA. The closest thing we had to that was if we voted down the JCBA (unfortunately we didn't) we would have gotten the average of the united and delta rates, still with no profit sharing.

But hey, APA decided to get us a 2.5% pay raise to get rid of profit sharing :rolleyes: