Reroute

From the Meeting Highlights of the Chairman's report.

"Captain Malone discussed updates on resolutions, including the addition of an Retirement and Insurance staff member and the PWA Section 3 B.4. issue. It has been determined there is no good basis for a 3 B.4. grievance."

notEnuf

That only means the union will not fight the Dec. 1 event. 3.B.4. is alive and well. I just wish they would publish the findings.

Yes, per the contract they can...

Yes, this is an intentional deviation from the historical norm...

Yes, management is circumventing the intent of...

Yes, they are attempting to influence negotiations...

But we don't want to fight this fight and will get a raise equal to other Delta raises in the future.

The union leadership needs to say these thing to maintain credibility and loyalty.

Reroute

I agree, you should hold your representatives accountable, and demand a clear and unambiguous statement from your representatives on this issue.

Yes, per the contract they can because....

Yes, this is an intentional deviation from the historical norm which we have decided to not fight because.....

Yes, management is circumventing the intent of the contract and they can with regards to 3B4 because......

Yes, they are attempting to influence negotiations, but they are allowed to circumvent what we believe is the intent because.....

The last we heard officially from the union was this (which appears now to be an honest assessment):

Myth: By rejecting this TA, Section 3 B. 4. language remains in effect giving us 3 percent raises in the future.

Fact: Section 3 B. 4. triggers a review of pilot wages if the Company gives a raise to the other employees. Should they decide to give a raise to others this year, no pay increase for the pilots would occur. We have already had our comparison in April, which matched the AMR/UAL 757 rate and resulted in a .55 percent raise. If they give a bonus to employees instead of a pay raise next year-no review is triggered. If they do it again in 2017,again, there is no review. Nobody should hang their hat on a clause inserted to examine other people’s pay.

notEnuf

Also Fact:

With the gains by UAL in January the 757 comparison will be in excess of the other employee pay rate increases, thereby ensuring our raise will occur at the same time and at the same percentage amount of the other employees raises. This would have been 3% prior to the new UAL payrates, now it has the potential to match a higher amount. (Sounds like your myth to me.)

Note:

Under C2012 this will happen annually with every raise the non-cons get going forward without concessions.

In my opinion, rate increases will happen in 2017 and annually after that as the company returns to normal raises. The profit sharing amount next year will be less than this year for the non-cons. If a bonus is paid in 2017, that will only make worse a year long negotiation and the swindling of pay away from pilots. This will ruin any goodwill that may be left. This will devolve over the next year for the company. I hope they take action to prevent that.

Reroute

Yes, in this case it sounds like a myth, since we apparently aren't getting either the new 757 generated rate, or the other employees raises unless the company gives the other employees another pay raise.

notEnuf

Do you think the other employee will never get another raise? It's not if but when. This is an effective clause for prolonged negotiations. It could be better but this is what we have from the previous contract negotiations. Maybe just a straight annual review of the industry average or a straight me too for the "cola type" non-con raises is what we should have gotten.

We are stuck with what we have for now, and it will provide raises.

Reroute

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on whether the other employees get pay raises or bonuses, but given the size of the pay raises they received in 2015, I don't see Delta giving them another for quite a while. They could easily go 2-3 years without a pay raise, particularly since they are now only making about 18% more than last year, but still have a profit sharing plan, albeit reduced. Let's say they give them a 3% raise in 2018, we would receive the smaller of industry average, or what the other employees got, in this example it would be a 3% non retro active bump in 2018.

Scoop

Just to add to this discussion - DAL can give the non-contracts unlimited bonuses and the Pilots will get two things...............jack and squat.

Unfortunately the 3.B.5 clause "Me too for bonuses" ended last December.

5. If, in any calendar year, the Company awards a bonus or lump sum payment other than a
24 base pay rate increase (and other than a payment pursuant to the Company profit-sharing
25 plan and/or the performance incentive plan, and/or an equity grant or issuance or other
26 consideration specified in the Plan of Reorganization) to U.S.-based non-pilot
27 workgroups covering 30% or more of its non-pilot U.S.-based workforce, then the pilots
28 will receive a bonus or lump sum payment equal to the highest across the board bonus or
29 lump sum payment granted to any major non-pilot work group (i.e., reservation agents,
30 flight attendants, AMTs, ACS agents). For example, if AMTs receive a $500 bonus and
31 Customer Service Agents receive a $300 bonus, then the pilots would receive the $500
32 bonus.
33 Note: This provision will terminate on December 31, 2015.





I would not depend on a raise via 3.B.4.

Scoop

acl65pilot

The front line employee raises to their rates equates to about 3.5 years worth of historical rate increases.

notEnuf

When the non-cons get their next raise, we will get the same raise.

True or False?

And the next raise... And the next... etc.

The timing is entirely up to management, I agree. Let's not forget management is the party that took this unprecedented action. It is their threat carried out. Only their actions caused the current situation regarding pilot pay rates. Only management can fix this. I am willing to wait for a much better deal. C2012 may not be the ideal contract but it will do until we get another one without concessions.