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Increasing Counterproposal Clarification
Some here have stated we are prohibited from increasing our counterproposal in light of Delta's tripling of earnings per share and PTIX.
I have clarification that this is not the case. We can increase our position at any time. There are no rules prohibiting a change. We all have to admit not one Delta pilot ever in their wildest dreams could have envisioned this level of record profits. When our execs had us by the throat during bankruptcy they took triple what they needed. In my opinion. It was there change to gut our pensions, medical benefits, work rules, pay, etc. On our backs they have rewarded themselves with tens of millions and they are just getting warmed up. After the billions in life changing concessions we took, is it right that we should live out our lives without the full pensions we were promised when we were hired? Is it right that our executives want to keep our concessions in place when they are no longer needed? Is it right that we should only have catastrophic medical insurance? Is it right that our trips hold so little value that we must work extra days? There is more than enough money to restore our contract and way of life. Speak up and be heard. |
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 2110836)
Some here have stated we are prohibited from increasing our counterproposal in light of Delta's tripling of earnings per share and PTIX.
I have clarification that this is not the case. We can increase our position at any time. There are no rules prohibiting a change. We all have to admit not one Delta pilot ever in their wildest dreams could have envisioned this level of record profits. When our execs had us by the throat during bankruptcy they took triple what they needed. In my opinion. It was there change to gut our pensions, medical benefits, work rules, pay, etc. On our backs they have rewarded themselves with tens of millions and they are just getting warmed up. After the billions in life changing concessions we took, is it right that we should live out our lives without the full pensions we were promised when we were hired? Is it right that our executives want to keep our concessions in place when they are no longer needed? Is it right that we should only have catastrophic medical insurance? Is it right that our trips hold so little value that we must work extra days? There is more than enough money to restore our contract and way of life. Speak up and be heard. |
Yes, yes, we need to revise our tabled offer..... omg, how much longer can we expect our tireless management leadership to endure the economic deprivation of their present compensation terms?
We must make the necessary sacrifices in our own economic expectations to provide at least the minimum level of living standards and economic security to our selfless management team. After all, we all can sleep well knowing our welfare is their top priority......... Sometimes I really crack myself up. :D ` |
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 2110836)
Some here have stated we are prohibited from increasing our counterproposal in light of Delta's tripling of earnings per share and PTIX.
I have clarification that this is not the case. We can increase our position at any time. There are no rules prohibiting a change.
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 2110836)
We all have to admit not one Delta pilot ever in their wildest dreams could have envisioned this level of record profits.
When our execs had us by the throat during bankruptcy they took triple what they needed. In my opinion. It was there change to gut our pensions, medical benefits, work rules, pay, etc. On our backs they have rewarded themselves with tens of millions and they are just getting warmed up. After the billions in life changing concessions we took, is it right that we should live out our lives without the full pensions we were promised when we were hired?
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 2110836)
Is it right that our executives want to keep our concessions in place when they are no longer needed?
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 2110836)
Is it right that we should only have catastrophic medical insurance?
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 2110836)
Is it right that our trips hold so little value that we must work extra days?
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 2110836)
There is more than enough money to restore our contract and way of life.
Speak up and be heard. |
Originally Posted by Falcon7
(Post 2111009)
Jerry is right. During BK management moved the goal posts. This is our turn.
NO! NO! NO! NO! YES! Jerry's right, what's happened to us isn't right. We deserve better 22,7,7, with no concessions and no excuses may not be enough. We have Lewis, Bartels, Crane, Brielmann and Pogue leading the charge, there is no reason for us not to achieve total restoration, plus inflation on the amendable date with zero concessions. Don't argue for less, argue for more. They can afford it! Theres all kinds of Herk guys, md88 driver guys, viper guys, I think I caught dementia or something. Did you find religion or hit your head or is it me? |
Originally Posted by scambo1
(Post 2111044)
Is your login easy to figure out or do I have you confused with a disciple of Lee who's apc name ends in 7? Im confused.
Originally Posted by scambo1
(Post 2111044)
Theres all kinds of Herk guys, md88 driver guys, viper guys, I think I caught dementia or something. Did you find religion or hit your head or is it me?
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My FO says our counteroffer is too high.
Hard to change a Marine's mind! No surprise no orange |
Originally Posted by Dirtdiver
(Post 2111095)
My FO says our counteroffer is too high.
Hard to change a Marine's mind! No surprise no orange Come work at Delta Air Lines, its better than the Marine Corps! |
Originally Posted by Dirtdiver
(Post 2111095)
My FO says our counteroffer is too high.
Hard to change a Marine's mind! No surprise no orange Or was he not working here in 2004? |
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 2110836)
We all have to admit not one Delta pilot ever in their wildest dreams could have envisioned this level of record profits.
So far the picture looks like this on an earnings per share basis: http://www.nasdaq.com/charts/DAL_epss.jpeg That is the data. Now an opinion. If we move further away from our contractual demand, it is likely the company will do the same. This kind of movement is a lack of progress towards a settlement. I would expect the company to respond in kind, seeking changes to scope, training, sick leave, bidding and crew augmentation to match the provisions in place at United and American. Of these, the scope changes and the augmentation changes concern me the most. Of course if both parties are moving away from one another's positions it is unlikely any agreement will be reached. At least among those who follow the numbers, Delta's performance isn't all that surprising. Obviously, those who buy the company's equity are not all that surprised to the upside, but there has been good news and providence has smiled on us in a number of ways that improves out bargaining position. I have no doubt our negotiators will work hard to capitalize on these changes. Business moves relatively quickly and already the terms of the rejected TA are, in my opinion, getting stale. We will know more about Delta's intended fleet mix next month. Delta will likely execute their pre-planned Aeromexico transaction around the beginning of the 3rd qtr. So yes, there is a lot of adjustments that would have to be made, even if the Aeromexico JV is a separate negotiation. The outlook for us has improved with fuel prices, an "inflection point" in PRASM guidance and United's ability to get their deal done clean. So Jerry (or whoever you are) IMHO it would be grossly mistaken to rescind our opener, but it would be entirely appropriate to make tweaks as the business environment changes. |
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 2111214)
In July 2017 the consensus of analysts was Delta would bring in a pre-tax income of $5.8bn, the result was $5.9bn. Their 2016 estimate was $6.68bn and $7bn for 2017.
So far the picture looks like this on an earnings per share basis: http://www.nasdaq.com/charts/DAL_epss.jpeg That is the data. Now an opinion. If we move further away from our contractual demand, it is likely the company will do the same. This kind of movement is a lack of progress towards a settlement. I would expect the company to respond in kind, seeking changes to scope, training, sick leave, bidding and crew augmentation to match the provisions in place at United and American. Of these, the scope changes and the augmentation changes concern me the most. Of course if both parties are moving away from one another's positions it is unlikely any agreement will be reached. At least among those who follow the numbers, Delta's performance isn't all that surprising. Obviously, those who buy the company's equity are not all that surprised to the upside, but there has been good news and providence has smiled on us in a number of ways that improves out bargaining position. I have no doubt our negotiators will work hard to capitalize on these changes. Business moves relatively quickly and already the terms of the rejected TA are, in my opinion, getting stale. We will know more about Delta's intended fleet mix next month. Delta will likely execute their pre-planned Aeromexico transaction around the beginning of the 3rd qtr. So yes, there is a lot of adjustments that would have to be made, even if the Aeromexico JV is a separate negotiation. The outlook for us has improved with fuel prices, an "inflection point" in PRASM guidance and United's ability to get their deal done clean. So Jerry (or whoever you are) IMHO it would be grossly mistaken to rescind our opener, but it would be entirely appropriate to make tweaks as the business environment changes. Thanks for your well laid out thoughts. I respectfully disagree. Concessions are off the table and laughable. Adjusted for inflation, our profits are higher than any negotiating environment in our history. Yet in the past we are able to negotiate 60% FAE DB plans, trips touching vacation, light years better medical, seniority list instructors, captain instructors, parking new fleets within 6 months if we can't agree on new hourly rates, etc. Why should you live the rest of your life without the pension you were promised when you were hired? Ed has his. Richard has his. There is no reason for Delta management not to restore every single concession they extorted from us in Chapter 11. Jerry Fielding |
it is a mistake to draw comparisons between simple 'airline' companies......and delta.
from our managements own mouth....we have it definitively concluded delta IS NOT a simple 'airline' in the transportation group....but instead something much more, and much more valuable. if our definition of success is to be achieving an 'agreement'....than we have already lost. |
Keep in mind, our retro paycheck will be as large as the PS check come next Jan 2017.
|
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 2111214)
In July 2017 the consensus of analysts was Delta would bring in a pre-tax income of $5.8bn, the result was $5.9bn. Their 2016 estimate was $6.68bn and $7bn for 2017.
So far the picture looks like this on an earnings per share basis: http://www.nasdaq.com/charts/DAL_epss.jpeg That is the data. Now an opinion. If we move further away from our contractual demand, it is likely the company will do the same. This kind of movement is a lack of progress towards a settlement. I would expect the company to respond in kind, seeking changes to scope, training, sick leave, bidding and crew augmentation to match the provisions in place at United and American. Of these, the scope changes and the augmentation changes concern me the most. Of course if both parties are moving away from one another's positions it is unlikely any agreement will be reached. At least among those who follow the numbers, Delta's performance isn't all that surprising. Obviously, those who buy the company's equity are not all that surprised to the upside, but there has been good news and providence has smiled on us in a number of ways that improves out bargaining position. I have no doubt our negotiators will work hard to capitalize on these changes. Business moves relatively quickly and already the terms of the rejected TA are, in my opinion, getting stale. We will know more about Delta's intended fleet mix next month. Delta will likely execute their pre-planned Aeromexico transaction around the beginning of the 3rd qtr. So yes, there is a lot of adjustments that would have to be made, even if the Aeromexico JV is a separate negotiation. The outlook for us has improved with fuel prices, an "inflection point" in PRASM guidance and United's ability to get their deal done clean. So Jerry (or whoever you are) IMHO it would be grossly mistaken to rescind our opener, but it would be entirely appropriate to make tweaks as the business environment changes. Did you just return from the future again? |
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 2111294)
Buck
Thanks for your well laid out thoughts. I respectfully disagree. Concessions are off the table and laughable. Adjusted for inflation, our profits are higher than any negotiating environment in our history. Yet in the past we are able to negotiate 60% FAE DB plans, trips touching vacation, light years better medical, seniority list instructors, captain instructors, parking new fleets within 6 months if we can't agree on new hourly rates, etc. Why should you live the rest of your life without the pension you were promised when you were hired? Ed has his. Richard has his. There is no reason for Delta management not to restore every single concession they extorted from us in Chapter 11. Jerry Fielding Comparing hourly rates pre 9/11 to now, even adjusting them for inflation, is comparing apples to oranges now that the DB is gone and anyone arguing they are unachievable is either new here or smoking something. I know it's been covered ad nauseum, but no matter how much Sailing tells me we are the highest paid and least productive, DAL has been receiving our services for a huge discount for far too long. It's time to fight for our comeuppance. (I don't even know if that makes sense. I just like the sound of it. ) |
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Originally Posted by Big E 757
(Post 2111547)
It's time to fight for our comeuppance. (I don't even know if that makes sense. I just like the sound of it. )
Come•up•pance ˌkəmˈəpəns/ nouninformal a punishment or fate that someone deserves. "he got his comeuppance" synonyms: just deserts, just punishment, due, retribution, requital, what's coming to one "the bad guys always get their comeuppance in the final scene" "Just rewards" would have been better. |
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