It never works out that way. We tell them it's being called off. They counter with a AE everyone hates the next day and blame it on the union pulling down the VB agreement.

ATL reps are against it. This is an auto NO vote.

I think I am more open minded about this than most but if it was not 100% subject to unilateral cancellation by DALPA at any time than I would be against it.

You say it never works out that way - Delta Pilots never voted No before. As far as an AE that no one likes could you please expand how that would work with accelerating retirements.

I think its pretty obvious after the last TA debacle that the company does not make AE/Fleet decisions based on spite but rather on what would make DAL the most money.

It'll be all right for a few individuals that commute from the VB, other than that, what's in it for us?

That is interesting. I could list perhaps a dozen things that benefit only a few individuals, that if changed would be 'automatic no' votes. How is this any different?

Are you really saying that the company would put out an "AE everyone hates" just to spite us?

Sure. Just like they wouldn't order those planes if we voted down the last TA.

Management will make their decisions on basing, airplane orders, etc. We don't need to trip over ourselves to bail out their mismanagement.

Why are you always trying to convince us to accept worse work rules?

If you think VB would be better work rules for the pilots all I can say is you're not the brightest bulb. I was surprised however to see in another post you acknowledge Delta's last contract was top of the industry. What was again surprising however was you seem to enjoy that UAL pilots might make more then our current contract this year. AMR will still be below us when you add in PS.

And both had no opportunity to better their situation through sect. 6 bargaining, but...

This one needs to be hit out of the park or we will sit on our apparently industry average compensation (when you add in PS)

We don't need a deal, we need an awesome deal. 3B4 will keep rates moving with our Delta peers while we ride the industry's transformation and Delta's sustainable profits.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d.../image_003.jpg

We already have virtual basing. Add deadheads to the ends of a rotation and you can put a pilot anywhere in the system. Red herring to convince us to give up current QOL. Virtual basing in any form we would agree to, wouldn't save a dime.

You said you have no interest flying int'l, I voted no to support FO's. It's hot out here in the west, I don't need your flaming me today. Kidding, I've got a cocktail watching the Open. Almost 100 though.

International flying is OK. It depends on the layover. I've just gotten tired of trying to manage sleep. I am doing all international all summer, but layovers that I want to do. In the fall/winter/spring I will go back to my Westin layovers. :D

So what do you mean you voted no to support FOs?

[QUOTE=JamesBond;2147278]International flying is OK. It depends on the layover. I've just gotten tired of trying to manage sleep. I am doing all international all summer, but layovers that I want to do. In the fall/winter/spring I will go back to my Westin layovers. :D

So what do you mean you voted no to support FOs?[/QUO

Aren't you tired of this game? I am. Shunned.

Dude I seriously have no clue what you are talking about, so I guess you win.

What do you anticipate the 3B4 trigger will be, and when?

The normal cycle for non contract raises is 1 Apr. I suspect you will see around a 3% raise on that date in 2017. That will trigger the same 3% raise for us.

I am wholeheartedly against VBs. They are a QOL killer.

What does virtual basing do except save the company from buying hotel rooms and paying DH and maybe per diem? Those are a cost of DL doing business. Unless we let them dump the cost on us. Looks like a total equine excrement concept to me. OFG

Like a lot of other things it may harm QOL for some but may be a huge QOL improvement for others. If our QOL items are based on inefficiencies for the company they're going to be short-lived as they find a way around them anyway.

If your asking about timing, that's entirely up to management. I don't anticipate anything but eventually other Delta employees will get raises. At that time, we will too if not sooner by approving a much improved deal.

The entire argument is we want improved QOL, which reduces efficiencies. Management wants efficiency gains. How do you propose we do this where its not just rearranging deck chairs so both sides have to relearn the new rules which always favor management. We fly airplanes. They manage, or in other words find ways to execute the business by removing obstacles like our contractual language.

Management has more brain power devoted to the contract than we do by far. They get paid to come up with those "solutions." We on the other hand after being in airplanes and hotels for 5 days just want to forget about Delta for a few days while we sleep in our own bed, see our family, and maybe enjoy our kids youth while we recharge before we do it all over again.

its gonna take two......maybe more, ta rejections to alter the existing posture of our relationship with the other side.

and by that i mean alpa and management.

unposted filler

Agreed. This is a bad idea IMO.

I know how tempting it is for some MCO pilots to think about a few months a year without their commute, but overall this just trashes seniority and dilutes categories according to management's whims. They say we can pull the plug if we want to, but IMO there is zero upside to the group as a whole, a lot of downside, and the upside to a few pilots is limited anyway.

IMO we shouldn't do this. If they want a base in MCO or wherever, open the base. There is way more than enough flying in MCO/BOS/etc to justify a base, but for the redonkulous fleet plan we have that waters everything down. This will make it even worse.

Under the current PWA they can open a base... just saying.

Exactly.

This virtual nonsense gives them the ability to trash our flying willy nilly as they see fit just to save a little credit and hotel costs. Even if it does work, it will just result in fewer overnights in those cities, which anyone who could hold the virtual base could have bid anyway.

If they really want to go down this road, the only real way would be to set up a system for jetway trades. Otherwise the only "relief" we should consider offering should be, limited cases, full on TDY assignments (full hotel if requested, 24/7 per diem and PS to and from every single trip. Instead they're lighting cigars with Billion Dollar Bills while worrying about hotel costs in a cheap market like MCO trying to reinvent the wheel.