BobZ

DL73n......$219/HRX80X12=$210K

AVG 1000HS/YEAR with 5% at premium rates 1000x.05=50hrsx219x2=$21k.

It adds up to about $230k/yr. On avg.

I have heard of one 73n who reached mid 400s. And more than a few reaching 300k. But we are talking about a select number, maybe top 10% in category and working their azzesoff.

As Timbo cited.... there are similarly situated FOs who are averaging 150hrs+/month for pay using the lca/gs model.

The last one I flew with in that boat looked exhausted, and at layover it was the first time I ever wondered if my copilot was going to even wake up in the morning.

Timbo

Working 18 days a month?? Holy crap! Do you have a wife and kids? Never in my 30+ year career have I worked 18 days in one month! That's 6 three day trips, or 4 four day trips plus a 2 day, or 3 six day trips. OUCH!

I average 12 days a month, being away from home 15 days in a really bad month, probably includes recurrent. Even when I was a kid flying cancelled checks 4 nights a week, that's only 16 days (nights) a month! But 18?? YGTBSM!

I can't imagine being home only 12 days a month, month after month, for years. What is the point of working that much? You trying to kill yourself?

MikeF16

*shrug*

On the ATL 717 you can't work less than 16 days a month and fly your standard line. 85% of our trips are 4 days and worth 21 hours. Only way to build a line is 4 x 4 day trips. It's the new norm unless you're a WB captain or FO.

So, a 2nd year 717 FO with a line can fly 16 days and earn roughly $8400/month or he can pick up 1 GS and now he's working 20 days for 105 hours (~$10.5k). My guess is it's not too much different on the other NBs.

This is why we can't give productivity concessions. My guess is most of us are already working 16+ a month, who wants more?

Edited for bad math

Timbo

Like I've been saying for years, PBS is the gift that keeps on taking! That one concession has cost you 20% of our jobs. The further down the list you are, the more it cost you.

We could keep PBS and just lower the ALV's and install real caps where you couldn't swap with the pot or off the P2P board above say, 80 and have vacation count as credit towards your max pickup too, but PBS and our current (non) cap rules basically has many of us (not me) flying to the FAR maximums, and in that last TA, the company wanted to raise the ALV another hour!

scambo1

I think generally thats why I stay put on the 777 (which we need about 30 more of) Like Timbo, I aim for the 9 day month but usually get 10-12 days. When I look at other schedules, it just makes me realize that Im a qol guy. I did the narrowbody domestic life. It works for lots of guys. It just makes me tired.

On the topic of $$$ for the OP, Ive flown the overtime stuff. I had a running year of it right after 117 was instituted. It was the sport of getting big paychecks. I have to admit, it was fun at first seeing that midmonth check in the 20-25k range. The thing is, it was for sport. After a year of it, I told my wife I was just going to fly my line. We didnt "need" the money. But, I did it in 12-15 days too.

Thats one of the things that is often missed while we discuss contract stuff...money vs life. Some people can never have enough money. None of us can have enough qol.

Put me in the qol camp. Money is great, its necessary. But at the end of the day, when you can have whatever you want, do you really want it? Need it? Do you really care what strangers think about you? Who are you trying to impress? Why?

My needs are my family, God, a high quality bike, high quality food, a pickup, a bowl and a spoon, a roof, a chair. Everything else is stuff that you gotta maintain.

Big paychecks are nice. Long term QOL with retirement and health care is IMPORTANT.

badflaps

Sadly the money is still here after you are gone.

Timbo

I've always been of the opinion that I should work just enough to cover my living expenses, and spend as much time -away- from work, enjoying my life, rather than flying greenslips.

I love flying, don't get me wrong, but I'd much rather be flying a J3 out of a grass strip going out on a two ship cow strafing mission than sitting in line, number 24 for takeoff, in a jet at JFK. I'd really rather be out on a sailboat with a good breeze, surfing the waves downwind to Key West.

After 9-11 and the 42% pay cut, ($100K pay cut for me) I had to sell the J3, sell the Inter 20 racing catamaran, pull one kid out of college, and work a lot more just to make the mortgage, car and tuition payments, but even then, I don't think I worked more than 15 days a month, and that was while commuting to reserve in ATL.

I cannot imagine flying 18 days a month more than one month a year, and that month would suck so bad I'd probably have to call in sick, because I'd get sick! It's one thing if it's self inflicted because you are picking up your third green slip and you need to pay off your loans, but to live on a steady diet of 18 day months?? No thanks.

FL370esq

Unfortunately, the point in working that much may not be by choice. With some domestic categories sporting an 84 hour ALV for months in a row, that puts the high end of the TLV at 91:30 and the "Wide Reports" are showing the company is targeting that 91:30. At 5:15 a day, that means you are working 17+ days to hit that TLV. And, with administrative constraints on how many can get min credit (still at 76:30 in an 84 hr ALV category), it just doesn't become an option for most. Then add in our reserve coverage issues (as in we ain't got none) and you can't even drop a trip so you are stuck with 17+ days on...at straight pay.

And they wonder why sick useage has increased.....??

Timbo

Exactly. The company builds 5+ day trips, and increases the ALV's and then wonders why sick leave is up?

BobZ

July alv 84 hours. Tough to even get in the window in less than 15 days. So making 28k in 18 days is not gonna happen.

Exactly what I told the survey people.... the productivity well is dry. So I'm voting a big fat 'no' on anything with any sort of increased productivity.