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forgot to bid 07-25-2016 08:55 PM


Originally Posted by tunes (Post 2167556)
Granted it could be false but I heard DALPA offered it up and the company didn't ask for it.


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I heard it was a CVG thing.

casual observer 07-26-2016 04:51 AM

Here's how I look at virtual basing. Let me know where I'm wrong.

Basically, the company doesn't know where it wants to use some of its heavies (777). So, it spends a bunch of money deadheading pilots around and putting them up in hotels instead of risking the expense of starting a new pilot base that would have to be closed when marketing changes its mind.

Somebody in management comes up with the idea of virtual basing and they brainstorm up the idea to sell it to the pilot group as a flexible tool that will benefit the commuters living at these random bases (if they become virtual bases). Obviously (the logic would go), if you are commuter, you'd be better off taking a chance your home airport will become a virtual base - even if its unlikely - rather than take a pass and guarantee no commuting relief.

The goal would be, for example, to get a narrow body captain living in Dallas to support the idea, because he might benefit and would have nothing to lose. What would happen, however, is the company would have no intention of virtually basing narrow bodies, they only want to eliminate the credit time in select wide body categories. And those wide body pilots can already deviate with positive space and get paid the credit - a commuter's dream.

So, what would more likely happen with virtual basing is a senior wide body F/O living in Dallas now making less money would be motivated to upgrade and displace the junior narrow body Captain that thought he was rolling the dice on not having to commute.

Both pilots end up with a non-paid commute and less money.

That's why I think the company wants it.

gzsg 07-26-2016 05:07 AM


Originally Posted by casual observer (Post 2168301)
Here's how I look at virtual basing. Let me know where I'm wrong.

Basically, the company doesn't know where it wants to use some of its heavies (777). So, it spends a bunch of money deadheading pilots around and putting them up in hotels instead of risking the expense of starting a new pilot base that would have to be closed when marketing changes its mind.

Somebody in management comes up with the idea of virtual basing and they brainstorm up the idea to sell it to the pilot group as a flexible tool that will benefit the commuters living at these random bases (if they become virtual bases). Obviously (the logic would go), if you are commuter, you'd be better off taking a chance your home airport will become a virtual base - even if its unlikely - rather than take a pass and guarantee no commuting relief.

The goal would be, for example, to get a narrow body captain living in Dallas to support the idea, because he might benefit and would have nothing to lose. What would happen, however, is the company would have no intention of virtually basing narrow bodies, they only want to eliminate the credit time in select wide body categories. And those wide body pilots can already deviate with positive space and get paid the credit - a commuter's dream.

So, what would more likely happen with virtual basing is a senior wide body F/O living in Dallas now making less money would be motivated to upgrade and displace the junior narrow body Captain that thought he was rolling the dice on not having to commute.

Both pilots end up with a non-paid commute and less money.

That's why I think the company wants it.

Nailed it. This is why Captain's Malone, DeRosa and Martin were so against it.

Once the camels nose is under the tent is will never go away. We will regret it deeply as it will harms us all. Fewer widebody captains means slower upgrades and slower advancement in category bid position.

Hank Kingsley 07-26-2016 05:22 AM


Originally Posted by casual observer (Post 2168301)
Here's how I look at virtual basing. Let me know where I'm wrong.

Basically, the company doesn't know where it wants to use some of its heavies (777). So, it spends a bunch of money deadheading pilots around and putting them up in hotels instead of risking the expense of starting a new pilot base that would have to be closed when marketing changes its mind.

Somebody in management comes up with the idea of virtual basing and they brainstorm up the idea to sell it to the pilot group as a flexible tool that will benefit the commuters living at these random bases (if they become virtual bases). Obviously (the logic would go), if you are commuter, you'd be better off taking a chance your home airport will become a virtual base - even if its unlikely - rather than take a pass and guarantee no commuting relief.

The goal would be, for example, to get a narrow body captain living in Dallas to support the idea, because he might benefit and would have nothing to lose. What would happen, however, is the company would have no intention of virtually basing narrow bodies, they only want to eliminate the credit time in select wide body categories. And those wide body pilots can already deviate with positive space and get paid the credit - a commuter's dream.

So, what would more likely happen with virtual basing is a senior wide body F/O living in Dallas now making less money would be motivated to upgrade and displace the junior narrow body Captain that thought he was rolling the dice on not having to commute.

Both pilots end up with a non-paid commute and less money.

That's why I think the company wants it.

I thought the first leg couldn't be an ocean crossing. Did I misread the AIP?

"A virtual base rotation may not begin with an ocean crossing or contain an ocean crossing
to or from an existing pilot base"

Hank Kingsley 07-26-2016 05:34 AM

A pilot who lives more than 125 miles from airport center will receive:
 Positive space travel between his home and the TDY or virtual base at beginning and
end of each bid period, and
 His option throughout the bid period of:
• Positive space travel between his home and the TDY or virtual base for each
rotation or on call days, or
• Airport hotel for all nights between rotations and during stretches of on-call day.

Positive space and hotels?

tunes 07-26-2016 05:57 AM


Originally Posted by Hank Kingsley (Post 2168330)
A pilot who lives more than 125 miles from airport center will receive:
 Positive space travel between his home and the TDY or virtual base at beginning and
end of each bid period, and
 His option throughout the bid period of:
• Positive space travel between his home and the TDY or virtual base for each
rotation or on call days, or
• Airport hotel for all nights between rotations and during stretches of on-call day.

Positive space and hotels?

only for the virtual base

Dat jet 07-26-2016 06:00 AM

VB'ing is a major reason to vote NO

Hank Kingsley 07-26-2016 06:09 AM

777 trips generally start with an ocean crossing.

Hank Kingsley 07-26-2016 06:33 AM

Based on the language, it wouldn't be for international flying. It would apply to domestic, provide "free" bases, dilute seniority and is cost saving. I wrote my reps against it.

Xray678 07-26-2016 06:36 AM


Originally Posted by Hank Kingsley (Post 2168320)
I thought the first leg couldn't be an ocean crossing. Did I misread the AIP?

"A virtual base rotation may not begin with an ocean crossing or contain an ocean crossing
to or from an existing pilot base"

Short term, I think virtual basing is targeted at the ER category and the flights to South America that are originating in MCO. as you point out, the AIP says no ocean crossing....doesn't say no international flights.


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