EWR has no business being in the "NYC" base. Our biggest regional makes JFK and LGA separate bases (and our second largest regional has a one flight commuter policy), and they are pretty close to each other (15-30 minutes with average to slightly heavy traffic). EWR, which can be 3-5 hours in heavy traffic with typical surface transportation means, isn't even a base for them. JB, NYC's "hometown airline" treats EWR as just another overnight city. Yet we suspend reality and roll in into the "NYC base" out of pure fantasy, partially defended by the tiny percentage of "locals" who drive twice as long as most air commuters fly to get there. I get it from their perspective, and I have no problem with EWR being a base, but it has no business being in the same base as JFK and LGA. It is a totally and completely separate base. Anything less is a flat out concession.

You can leave all the expletives out of it to add a little maturity to the exchange since a simple 'not interested' will suffice. Unless we get a 75% pay increase in lieu thereof. ;)

I want to see OFG's source on this though. Sounds like spaghetti on the wall to me.

It already exists as a co terminal. How is it a concession to allow it to remain as such? I agree that it would be better if separate, but how is continuing the status quo a concession?

Because it is a pre-existing concession. Allowing it to continue is by definition a concession.

This just goes to show how nefarious concessions are. They instantly become permanent fixtures.

What if we hypothetically said no health insurance for pilots. That would be a concession, right. So for C2018, continuing that wouldn't be a concession anymore? Same thing for a B scale, scope sales, etc. A concession is a concession until its eliminated.

EWR has no place in the JFK/LGA "NYC base".

At least we can quantify that slap in the face from management.

The one we really need to watch out for is the other thing OFG mentioned:

Management's proposal to take some part of their compensation right from the top of the profit sharing amount. Whether they call it their "bonuses" or "stock grants" or whatever. They will find a way to define most of their pay so it comes right out of our pockets. They will define everybody except the janitor as part of the "executive" group who gets their pay backed out of the PS calculation.

Does anyone have any doubt about the people running this company?
If we allow them to pay themselves first and take that money out of our profit sharing this management team will screw us every which way but Sunday. Look how far they went out of their way to shaft the pilots when they gave the other employees their big raise in December instead of January just to get around Section 3.B.4 of our contract.

This is the classic "loophole" big enough to fly a 747 through.
We can kiss most of our profit sharing goodbye if we allow this.
If the MEC falls for such an obvious ploy then they all need to be recalled.

This thing allowing management to pay themselves out of our profit sharing has ALPA National "lawyering" written all over it.
That always means the pilots lose.

Agreed. That is a HUGE poison pill. If they want something like that in there (which I disagree with) they at least need to set a clear and reasonable limit. If they don't, the ONLY reason is because they fully intend to use it to the max.

The co-terminal is a huge stretch.

You get there when you get there. If they need you in 2 hours, they better call the helicopter company to pick you up. Otherwise, planes, trains and taxicabs.

Even the short call insanity isn't the extent of it. If you crashpadded or even move to the most realistic areas (Queens/Brooklyn/LI/etc) that makes EWR a completely unreasonable "base" under all situations. Even a regular line trip or pre-assigned reserve trip outside of short call is 100% unreasonable. Yes you could move to PA/NJ and be close to EWR, and many do, but that makes the other bases that contain a majority of the flying to be unreasonably far away especially in traffic. Having to get up at 1AM for an early morning report (or any scenario that requires 3+ hours of driving) is ridiculous.

EWR being in the same base as JFK/LGA is a huge concession. They want EWR it needs to be a separate base, or we need on duty surface transportation provided at no cost to us, on the duty day clock.

Many years ago we got EWR eliminated as a co domicle. The company agreed no more trips would be built from there. The PA crowd screamed bloody murder even claiming it amounted to a displacement and they were now owed a payed move. The trips were back the next month. Having said that I made the trip many times from Kew and it never took me more then two hours.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. I will buy the surface transportation thingy though, but be careful wishing it to be included in the duty day clock. CDG, SVO and probably a ton of other destinations might wind up at airport hotels because of the travel time.