Originally Posted by Green Squirrel

This discussion is a great demonstration of what happens to a society when everyone one gets a participation ribbon/no one gets placed higher than the next person/everyone gets complimented/everyone has feelings that must be attended to.

This country has gone emotional and soft.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Age was the system Delta used for years. There is a certain logic to it as retirement age is predetermined. The younger pilot will at some point in his career gain that number back. A older pilot placed behind a younger pilot stays there forever.

Originally Posted by flensr

It seems like the issue isn't overall seniority over the long run, it's the initial assignment that could take some time to move out of if it's not a good match. That kind of thing is simply harder on people with less years remaining.

Sympathy for that kind of issue is hard to find, everyone goes through new guy issues and getting a plane and/or base at the bottom of your list is sometimes part of the deal. Seems like some companies throw the old guys a gimme at hiring time 'cause they have fewer years to make up for it, and some companies don't.

Originally Posted by OOfff

Maybe young guys are more likely to have young children and the year of commuting is harder on them than an older guy with teenagers or grown children?

Originally Posted by gloopy

LOLWUT? That's 100% irrelevant it doesn't even justify a response but I'll provide one anyway.

1. I never said that

Well then what does “Ageism laws are fake news...” mean? That’s where I got it. It is irrelevant to this discussion.

2. We're a seniority list with a CBA, ergo:
3. That's not an issue here anyway
4. This would have absolutely nothing to do with how new hire class seniority was assigned even IF it were a thing being a pilot on a SL with a CBA, which it isn't here anyway.



I still would go with age. My SSN helped me gain class seniority compared to what age would have, and I'd be against retroactively modifying anyone's seniority anyway. But going forward age is the best way to do it. The health argument is stupid because in many cases you can control large portions of your health, both now and during your career. With age you WILL be out on your 65th b'day (hopefully we can hold that line) but even if it changes, whatever age it is would change for everyone anyway. If someone has a decade or two less to spend on the list, an extra 10 or 20 spots is fair and reasonable and no one is victimized over it.

Well, will have to agree to disagree. First, you are right, we could/should never go back and change seniority and base it on anything other than what it was when one was hired. I’m of the opinion it should be based on a more random selection. You are not. And the argument that 10 or 30 numbers doesn’t make a difference in the long run works both ways. On a personal note, like BobZ, I was hired at 29. A guy in my class who was 32 was the last one to get into PDX on the MD-11. 15 senior to me. If someone doesn’t think those numbers are relevant, they are mistaken. At this point in my career, yes, those numbers reall don’t matter because we are all spread out over the system and a few have retired.

Its not just about "better choices" either. 99% of those "better choices" are already rewarded by the mentally and spiritually superior young buck ninja pilot already getting hired and on the list years or decades earlier anyway. That pilot will forever be senior to all others hired after them.

Yeah, so what. This is not a discussion about the pilots hired after him or before him. Straw man argument. “Better” may have not been the right word. But I think the choices one makes certainly has a huge impact. As an example, l just don’t think the guy who chose to stay in the Military and retire (I thank anyone who did this for their service) should be place ahead of a younger pilot who chose a different route........simply based on age.

But I do agree that a truly random way to assign it would be better than the current method. I statistically would have done worse if it was done by age or random assignment (although its possible to have done better with a very lucky draw, statistically its unlikely for me) so this isn't sour grapes and I'd have nothing to gain anyway even if we did change it, retroactively which no one is advocating for, and I had a time machine to go back to anyway. In any case that's the 3rd best way to do it IMO.

Heaven forbid! Did you come over to the darkside!

The 2nd best way being date of interview/CJO. Yes you'll still have pilots who interviewed first but got put in later classes etc. But we're only talking about in class seniority since a class is all hired on the same day. Date of CJO is at least something I can't fathom anyone objecting to.

Originally Posted by gloopy

... removing ties from the summer uniform (srsly, they just look comically ridiculous with short sleeve shirts)...

Originally Posted by ItnStln

I'm curious, how do airlines who sort their new hire classes by age handle two new hires with the same date of birth?