Hank Kingsley

Aside the retro pay, our current contract is better than the AIPs. I don't get sick, but I don't like where it's heading, and this I hope is my last contract. LCA drops don't affect me. Profit sharing was paid for, not giving it up. I'd like to stick a hot poker in their eye, but that's just fun and emotional.

Our pilot group doesn't have the stones to stand up. Just read the Deltanet, enuf said.

gzsg

Sink

What's you bottom for your yes vote?

Will you vote yes for immediately placing management into JV scope compliance?

GivemeVSP

This is exactly what management and Ford & Harrison want us to do. Please stop writing with such desperation. They want us to come begging to vote for anything, which will be a POS, because they know of desperate guys like you.

JamesBond

Yes. Yes he does.

JamesBond

Remember who you are conversing with.

Big E 757

This^^^^^^

The company has been lured into a false sense of comfort for far too long during the Lee Moak principles of constructive engagement. We solved the company's problems for years during the tough times and during that time, it was appropriate. I'm not bashing Lee, he was a great leader at the time. We needed to work together to eek our way through the "troubles" of a crippled industry.

That time was over about 5-6 years ago by the way I see it. I thought C2012 was weak and voted no but when Dalpa said it would set us up great for our next contract, and although I didn't change my no vote, I believed them. The FA's were in a union organization effort too, so I thought, they won't bend over backwards for us now if we vote no or it will encourage the FA's to vote in the AFA, so the passing of the 2012 contract wasn't a bad thing for us. But now, with how our industry has changed, and so many of us that have been through all of the tough times and all the concessions, not to mention the lost pensions and the dreams of a comfortable retirement that have been taken from so many of us, to bring us such a crappy contract, like MD did, was a huge kick in the undercarriage. Management isn't going to go lightly, but I'm glad my Union is fighting for better....for what we deserve. They already got away with 4 years of noncompliance with our JV production balance because MD and our union was so sure they were going to sell us on that POS contract, it didn't even occur to them to tie it to the passing of the TA that changed the language for the JV scope.

Sink, if I'm not mistaken, you're a 2007-2008 hire. And you get one vote, just like I do. Please don't be so eager to have something in front of you to vote on. I'd love to get a 18-20% raise tomorrow, but not at the expense of our work rules. It sounds like you are very familiar with the process at Dalpa, I'm not. Maybe it's an illusion that they are fighting for me, but from my perspective, this is the first time I've got a union that is fighting for me and my interests, since the last time JM was in charge. I know we gave up a lot of RJ scope for C2K, but hopefully we learned our lesson...I think we have.

Peace, brother. It will be over before you know it!

capncrunch

Why are you so desperate for a deal? I want a deal too, but I want the right deal. I'm willing to wait.

Sink r8

You guys are hilarious. Well, you would be, if you weren't talking about real gains and losses affecting real families, as if it's a philosophical point only.

Not only is the MEC not able to wrap-up a deal that trounces TA1 in value when the environment is just about perfect, and all the positive catalysts are baked in, but they're slowing going down a trajectory where they'll underperform TA1 in terms of TVM. And that's assuming no adverse events, and a decent economy, and favorable oil prices.

I think that ANY deal we do, whether now or in years when the MEC falls on their sword, will contain concessions. The only question is whether our total annual returns will be in the fives and sixes (as they could be if we acted this summer), or the threes, if we follow the industry.

So yes, you're right I want to vote before we bypass fives and sixes for quixotic searches for tens and twelves, and end up like everyone else: threes. The longer you wait, the higher the rate increases have to be.

That's where I'm coming from.

Zoomie

Dear Delta pilots,

Please don't sell more scope. Payrates only last a season, scope lasts forever.

The RJ industry is almost defunct and this would give them another lifeline.

There's no reason right now to give away something as big as scope. If you are willing to give away scope in this environment, I'd hate to see another downturn. You'll give away all your flying.

You've given away more scope twice now since the merger, the merger agreement and then the extension, please don't do it again.

IMO, we are about 3-5 years from bringing all that flying into mainline. If more scope is eroded, then you just threw another grenade in the tent for your fellow pilots at United and AA. If you are able to hold the line like everyone has for the past 3 years, legacy carriers will be buying regional airlines soon to get pilots. Help your management lead the way in buying regionals, not outsourcing more.

You have some tough management right now. CAL/UAL and AA had to deal with that for 5-6 years. You've had it for one year now. Stay strong like I know you can. You guys/gals are smarter than this.

Also, don't negotiate in public on a public message board. You think that a negotiator couldn't float a message on this board and see how it goes?

TED74

Do you make TVM calculations based on the duration of a single contract? I sense that to be the math behind the impatient minority. It's dangerous thinking if one wants to get this historic opportunity right.

This contract is a baseline for the next...not just ours, but our peers' who will have contracts built upon whatever benchmark we set next. Naturally, it will be those peer contracts that we'll next incorporate into negotiations and debate our next time around.

Do you have any examples of concessions that lasted only one contract? Most seem to be pretty well baked in. I think it wise to calculate TVC over several contracts too. Seeing as how massive retirements won't transpire during THIS contract, but only in the two that follow, we (you?) should be taking a longer view on this whole process. Of course anyone who retirees in the next 3-5 years might have completely different motivations. I'll be around for two decades more.