differences then upgrade
 

Can anyone shed some light on what a calendar looks like for doing 900 to 200 differences followed by upgrade course. Are classroom weekends off? How many days of classroom? Is there time to fly home between sims? does the company positive space you home and back between sims like in new-hire training?

Any input is greatly appreciated. The company site offers some info on the differeneces training but I couldn't find anything on the upgrade footprint.

Thanks

3 days of differences followed by 2 days of captain leadership. 2 FTD, 1 maneuvers lessons and then the MV. 2 lofts and the LOE. Then 25 hours min for OE. Usually a 4 day and a 2 day do it

Class is Monday to Friday and you bid sim schedule based on seniority during captain leadership. Some start following Monday some get some time off. Yes you are PS from your home to MSP. Start to finish of OE was about a month. Upgrade training isn’t terrible at all but go in ready to pass a systems test. That’s on the last day of differences. Oral is 15 question AQP. A lot of people are failing their LOE for soft skill areas so use good CRM and communicate effectively

Thanks for the info. Do you happen to know if this info is available somewhere? I simply could not find it.

I imagine it would be in the flight ops training manual. (FOTM) Having taught for an airline in the past it outlines what is required for different training events. It is located in the publications library on the company website.

You can find the aqp manual in the publications library. Everything is in there except the actual scenarios they use. For obvious reasons

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I tried that the other day from the iPad, but could not open nor download any of the manuals. Has anyone been able to see the manuals from the iPad?

Check pop up blocker settings. Have to turn them all off for the pubs library.

Thanks. I like to think I'm not one of the lazy ones, but who knows? I click and click and click around that website and just can't find anything.

Yeah, did that already. Still no bueno.

Hi Guys
Not sure if this is the right thread for this question but I'm curious about upgrades. I understand how they will be offered by seniority, but If I come in to the company with 1000 hours of jet PIC time already would that make me eligible for upgrade sooner and how would that work?
thanks

Depends on where that jet PIC is from... You need to be more specific.

The jet PIC is under part 135, but what I read in 121.436 you could also qualify time under part 91 as long as it was PIC. Either way I have that covered. I'm just curious how the company would determine it?
thanks

Assuming the hours you have satisfy 121.436, the company will first try to fill the upgrades using their own requirements (2500 tt, 1000 at company). If there aren't enough people that meet their requirements, they will lower the requirements until they can fill all the slots. Of course they cannot lower them below the FAR requirements.

That being said, there are people hired in November with 0 company hours that have already been awarded captain.

135 Jet PIC, 10 passenger seats or more. Or Fractional share, it spells it out in the FARs.

Thank You, that answered my question

You would still need 1000 hours with the company, unless they decide to lower it for you.

Which they've been doing regularly

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You woul upgrade as soon as your seniority and company time allow. 1,000 company time and 2,500 total time are also required (in addition to the 121 time), but are waivable down if they need CAs and not enough people have those hours. Have seen company time go down to 217 on the 200.

So if you start today, everyone on the list ahead of you are more senior, but may not have the 121, so you’d upgrade before them as soon as you met the minimum company/total time. Which means you’d be on reserve for a very long time because as those more senior to you catch up on their 121 time, they will upgrade and push you down the list.

It is down to 0 on the 200.

The 217 company time on the last award is based off a pilot getting 75 hours a month from the moment the award is final til the midpoint of all the upgrade class start dates in that award.... the mid point of the classes is 2.89 months from the date the Award went final... 75 hours a month over 2.89 months makes 217 hours.


the 217 hours in 17-05 basically means 0 company time at the point where the award was final.

How far after the award is the training date? Your example makes it seem like nearly 3 months after they complete initial training and hit the line they will come back for upgrade training

There is no "set in stone" on this. One new hire got a 200 CP award the last week of Nov 2017 with a mid Feb 2018 upgrade class date. More senior folks on the same award start upgrade in Jan 2018.

Training is a bit backed up so come prepared to work as and get paid as an FO for a bit. It could be weeks or it could be months. It could be years if you chase particular equipment or domicile.

I'm just trying to set realistic expectations.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification!

Also something for newcomers to consider is that while the 900 hasn’t enjoyed the company hour waivers as much as the 200 has, several people have bid 200 CA, gotten it, then turned around and upgraded to the 900 with hardly any company time. (Due to seat lock removals)

Why?
Shadre Reevis just said pilots were upgraded with 0 hours with the company.

Normally, If there are a multitude of qualified people, the company goes in seniority order of those that have 2500TT and 1000 company time. Right now, since there are not a multitude of qualified people bidding for the 200CA, the company can reduce the total time and company time requirements to prevent the hiring of a street captain.

Don't make this complicated. Sounds like you are getting the verbiage confused with an unrelated seat-lock clause.

Camel, what E6BAV8R said is the same thing as what I told you earlier, he just worded it poorly. I'm not sure why he decided to repeat what I already told you in the first place. The company has and will continue to lower their internal requirements down to basically the legal minimum, in order to fill the captain vacancies. There are people with 0 hours at this company awarded captain after just a few days on property. I don't know how to make it any simpler.

Ok I thought that's what everyone was saying but wasn't sure if he was speaking of some other clause. Much Appreciated

It's 135 jet pic OR 10 seats or more OR multi engine commuter.

That's the way I interpret it as well.