Endeavor interviewing? Hiring? Class dates?
03-13-2019, 06:57 PM
#31
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by Casualinterest
But yes. Reserve rules here are undeniably bad compared to other airlines.
We should always seek improvements, but my god I hardly consider our reserve rules anything less than above average. Commute during your call out period, SS ready on the first and last day to allow more flexible commuting, contractual auto release, just to name a few.
I sat my fair share of reserve and spent plenty of time on ready. My friend was on reserve at Envoy during the same period. Theirs are UNDENIABLY BAD.
03-13-2019, 07:30 PM
#32
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 97
Originally Posted by Casualinterest
1) our RESERVE rules are some of the worst among the regionals.
But
2) our WORK rules are fantastic.
Examples:
EDV pays SAT or better, instead of block or better, leg by leg. That’s worth about 3-5 hrs per month of pay.
EDV uses PBS for bidding instead of line bids. That allows the company to manipulate the schedules more to their advantage. It also prevents stuff like vacation touching. Line bidding usually means better QOL and pay, if you do it correctly.
The reserve grid manipulation hurts reserves for sure, but it also affects line holders to a somewhat lesser degree as well.
The BDM tag on dropped legs zeroes out the daily guarantee on many trips that are picked up after someone drops them.
While not a work rule, CS at 9E is usually lacking, sometimes horrible. Low paying job with high turnover. You deal with them less as a line holder, but it’s still a factor.
As others have alluded to, it just seems that lately management doesn’t really seem worried about retaining folks. The threatening tone of emails regarding stuff like brake drops, latency, etc has even been discussed by the union.
03-13-2019, 07:41 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,767
Originally Posted by Mustang62
Work rules/contract are OK for lineholders. I wouldn’t classify them as “fantastic”.
Examples:
EDV pays SAT or better, instead of block or better, leg by leg. That’s worth about 3-5 hrs per month of pay.
EDV uses PBS for bidding instead of line bids. That allows the company to manipulate the schedules more to their advantage. It also prevents stuff like vacation touching. Line bidding usually means better QOL and pay, if you do it correctly.
The reserve grid manipulation hurts reserves for sure, but it also affects line holders to a somewhat lesser degree as well.
The BDM tag on dropped legs zeroes out the daily guarantee on many trips that are picked up after someone drops them.
While not a work rule, CS at 9E is usually lacking, sometimes horrible. Low paying job with high turnover. You deal with them less as a line holder, but it’s still a factor.
As others have alluded to, it just seems that lately management doesn’t really seem worried about retaining folks. The threatening tone of emails regarding stuff like brake drops, latency, etc has even been discussed by the union.
Examples:
EDV pays SAT or better, instead of block or better, leg by leg. That’s worth about 3-5 hrs per month of pay.
EDV uses PBS for bidding instead of line bids. That allows the company to manipulate the schedules more to their advantage. It also prevents stuff like vacation touching. Line bidding usually means better QOL and pay, if you do it correctly.
The reserve grid manipulation hurts reserves for sure, but it also affects line holders to a somewhat lesser degree as well.
The BDM tag on dropped legs zeroes out the daily guarantee on many trips that are picked up after someone drops them.
While not a work rule, CS at 9E is usually lacking, sometimes horrible. Low paying job with high turnover. You deal with them less as a line holder, but it’s still a factor.
As others have alluded to, it just seems that lately management doesn’t really seem worried about retaining folks. The threatening tone of emails regarding stuff like brake drops, latency, etc has even been discussed by the union.
If we get growth here we're gonna be complaining theres too much flying and we're making too much money. Pilots.
03-13-2019, 08:07 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 888
Originally Posted by Mustang62
That limit does not apply when you are the “last one”, which is a tactic they frequently
03-13-2019, 08:30 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 888
Originally Posted by Mustang62
Work rules/contract are OK for lineholders. I wouldn’t classify them as “fantastic”.
Examples:
EDV pays SAT or better, instead of block or better, leg by leg. That’s worth about 3-5 hrs per month of pay.Are there any Delta regionals paying block or better? Delta block times typically exceed SAT because they want "on-time" performance. They wouldn't have to. They could block everything 20 minutes under SAT and we'd still get SAT. Skywest calls theirs historical or something but they've got exactly what we have.
EDV uses PBS for bidding instead of line bids. That allows the company to manipulate the schedules more to their advantage. It also prevents stuff like vacation touching. Line bidding usually means better QOL and pay, if you do it correctly. What regionals are still using line bidding? I'd say the minority if any. PBS does short you on vacation and planned absences compared to line bidding but basically nobody regional or major has line bidding anymore, that fight has been lost basically everywhere.
The reserve grid manipulation hurts reserves for sure, but it also affects line holders to a somewhat lesser degree as well. I don't disagree it'd be nice to see a realistic threshold but it's been beat to death, the company doesn't want to pay 150% to let you drop. They've even said now they're going to let reserves drop even in the red, what more do you want? Does another regional have better transparency? Do they have 150% minimum for all open time?
The BDM tag on dropped legs zeroes out the daily guarantee on many trips that are picked up after someone drops them. If the trip which was broken up by partial trades is eventually assigned to a reserve, that reserve will be credited min day. You think the company should allow us to break trips at our leisure and then pay however many min days that result? Is there another regional that has that?
While not a work rule, CS at 9E is usually lacking, sometimes horrible. Low paying job with high turnover. You deal with them less as a line holder, but it’s still a factor. Our schedulers try to follow the contract.
They're professional and polite. If you believe the contract is being violated, ask politely to speak to a supervisor the supervisors generally know and will honor the contract. If there's still some question, fly it and submit a pilot issue form to our union. The union is generally pretty good at getting issues resolved and get the company to pay settlements to the affected pilots if the contract was violated. I'd put our union up against any other regional as very effective overall. Who do you think does better at a regional level?
As others have alluded to, it just seems that lately management doesn’t really seem worried about retaining folks. The threatening tone of emails regarding stuff like brake drops, latency, etc has even been discussed by the union. I'm not sure I've read any memos that had a threatening tone, are you aware of any pilots being disciplined for latency? As for the brake drop, I believe the union has a pending group grievance, it will be settled at some point. In the mean time, I'm not aware of anyone being disciplined for dropping the brake with main cabin door close.
Examples:
EDV pays SAT or better, instead of block or better, leg by leg. That’s worth about 3-5 hrs per month of pay.Are there any Delta regionals paying block or better? Delta block times typically exceed SAT because they want "on-time" performance. They wouldn't have to. They could block everything 20 minutes under SAT and we'd still get SAT. Skywest calls theirs historical or something but they've got exactly what we have.
EDV uses PBS for bidding instead of line bids. That allows the company to manipulate the schedules more to their advantage. It also prevents stuff like vacation touching. Line bidding usually means better QOL and pay, if you do it correctly. What regionals are still using line bidding? I'd say the minority if any. PBS does short you on vacation and planned absences compared to line bidding but basically nobody regional or major has line bidding anymore, that fight has been lost basically everywhere.
The reserve grid manipulation hurts reserves for sure, but it also affects line holders to a somewhat lesser degree as well. I don't disagree it'd be nice to see a realistic threshold but it's been beat to death, the company doesn't want to pay 150% to let you drop. They've even said now they're going to let reserves drop even in the red, what more do you want? Does another regional have better transparency? Do they have 150% minimum for all open time?
The BDM tag on dropped legs zeroes out the daily guarantee on many trips that are picked up after someone drops them. If the trip which was broken up by partial trades is eventually assigned to a reserve, that reserve will be credited min day. You think the company should allow us to break trips at our leisure and then pay however many min days that result? Is there another regional that has that?
While not a work rule, CS at 9E is usually lacking, sometimes horrible. Low paying job with high turnover. You deal with them less as a line holder, but it’s still a factor. Our schedulers try to follow the contract.
They're professional and polite. If you believe the contract is being violated, ask politely to speak to a supervisor the supervisors generally know and will honor the contract. If there's still some question, fly it and submit a pilot issue form to our union. The union is generally pretty good at getting issues resolved and get the company to pay settlements to the affected pilots if the contract was violated. I'd put our union up against any other regional as very effective overall. Who do you think does better at a regional level?
As others have alluded to, it just seems that lately management doesn’t really seem worried about retaining folks. The threatening tone of emails regarding stuff like brake drops, latency, etc has even been discussed by the union. I'm not sure I've read any memos that had a threatening tone, are you aware of any pilots being disciplined for latency? As for the brake drop, I believe the union has a pending group grievance, it will be settled at some point. In the mean time, I'm not aware of anyone being disciplined for dropping the brake with main cabin door close.
03-14-2019, 03:24 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,237
Originally Posted by Casualinterest
Whoa hold on now. That's two different things you said there.
1) our RESERVE rules are some of the worst among the regionals.
But
2) our WORK rules are fantastic.
When you do hold a line here you can make a ton of money done right. I've been told we had a few FO's clear 100k last year.
And I know for a fact that you can clear 75k with 200 days off as an FO.
But yes. Reserve rules here are undeniably bad compared to other airlines. They will never improve because line holders wont ask for negotiating capital to be spent on it, and no MEC officer has been elected on the foundation of improving reserve.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
1) our RESERVE rules are some of the worst among the regionals.
But
2) our WORK rules are fantastic.
When you do hold a line here you can make a ton of money done right. I've been told we had a few FO's clear 100k last year.
And I know for a fact that you can clear 75k with 200 days off as an FO.
But yes. Reserve rules here are undeniably bad compared to other airlines. They will never improve because line holders wont ask for negotiating capital to be spent on it, and no MEC officer has been elected on the foundation of improving reserve.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
03-14-2019, 03:34 AM
#37
Porco Rosso
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,522
Originally Posted by Blueskies21
I agree with one of the other posters, 12 days off for reserves, commute in during your call out, automatic release on the last day, we've made pretty good headway in the last few years at improving reserve rules here. Many of us sat YEARS on reserve here before many of those improvements, is there still some room for improvement? Sure. Stricter limits on airport reserve or shorter period for airport reserve, some regionals have 4 hour sit for 4 hour pay but overall, pretty good here. If you don't agree, I'd love to know who at the regional level has it better and what you want of theirs.
I wouldn't want Envoy's reserve rules, though. Our lines are way more commuter-friendly than Brickyard's lines.
Like you say, we've got the best overall package for a regional. It's not mainline... but yeah, duh.
03-14-2019, 04:55 AM
#38
Will FTI for food...
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 388
Originally Posted by Blueskies21
We have reserve transparency. You can review the contract and the reserve sheet and determine for yourself if the assignment is contractually compliant or if it's a "tactic". If it's correct that there are no other reserves available or no other reserves that haven't also sat 10 days of ready reserve then it just is what it is. If it's a "tactic" and not a correct assignment, file a pilot issue form. The company tries to follow the contract generally, if they're not following it, it will get corrected and you'll end up with a settlement.
03-14-2019, 05:17 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,767
Originally Posted by preflight
When you have 60 plus reserves and need 20 it is pretty crappy to force 4 people to sit ready reserve 10 times a month before engaging the 56 others who could be helping! Especially when there is no growth and it is the same 4 people over and over...
Make sure you're reviewing 25.J if you're on reserve, because there's a metric ton of money to be made if you're improperly used, contacted, or otherwise violated. 100% chance someone is calling up scheduling and begging for flying out of reserve order because they are whiny wheedling ****s (explicative).
03-14-2019, 06:03 AM
#40
Will FTI for food...
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 388
Originally Posted by theUpsideDown
And if you go to mainline someday and they stop hiring the moment after your class starts you'll be in the same position. Being junior sucks, if those 4 leave then the bottom four afterwards will be the RR champs. You rolls' your dice, and ya' takes' ya' shot.
Make sure you're reviewing 25.J if you're on reserve, because there's a metric ton of money to be made if you're improperly used, contacted, or otherwise violated. 100% chance someone is calling up scheduling and begging for flying out of reserve order because they are whiny wheedling ****s (explicative).
Make sure you're reviewing 25.J if you're on reserve, because there's a metric ton of money to be made if you're improperly used, contacted, or otherwise violated. 100% chance someone is calling up scheduling and begging for flying out of reserve order because they are whiny wheedling ****s (explicative).
Continually screwing the bottom guys on a seniority list is unsustainable in a tight labor market.
We could do better than "it's always been like that" if we choose to...
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