Originally Posted by Mesabah

Before PSA had a flow, they had an SSP with a greater than 95% pass rate. The DGI stands at 47%.

Originally Posted by theUpsideDown

Again, posters on this web board are convinced thosenumbers will only go up.

Originally Posted by Mad Hatter

Every Endeavor Pilot is offered a guaranteed interview with Delta. So they’re all offered the opportunity, correct?

Exaclty what does Delta owe the pilots of Endeavor? Is the guaranteed interview program in your current contract or in mainline’s? This rhetoric will never yield a flow to Delta. Uphold the professionalism that Endeavor pilots have shown and it will yield the most favorable prospects for career progression, regardless or where you want to go. If you’re looking for something given to you, is that even progression or is it entitlement?

Originally Posted by flydiamond

Your union said their progression to DL is “virtually guaranteed.”

Originally Posted by GuardPolice

Any pilot’s progression to Delta is virtually guaranteed if you follow one of their selection processes, prepare well and execute to a successful outcome.

Originally Posted by HeyOneTaco

Alright hear me out completely here.



Unfortunately, it’s the optics of the matter that has raised this issue. Delta has selected people before they have operated safely in a 121 environment, and interacted with Delta customers, etc. Things that pilots do at Endeavor daily and do very well. So inertly they are less qualified to be a Delta pilot at the point of selection for the Propel program than an Endeavor pilot is after being on property for 4 years. This cannot be argued. We’re talking about being an airline pilot, remember?



I agree that they can select candidates like OTS. Let’s assume candidates of high moral character and so on. So we now have Propel candidates that have no professional aviation experience but high moral character.



On the Endeavor side we have pilots who have years of professional aviation experience, validated by their training records and so on. The only missing link is a way to validate their moral character like can be done for Propel with an interview.



Where the issues stands is then those candidates come to Endeavor and do exactly what every pilot before them has done. But then get a job at Delta after the clock ticks long enough. Everyone at Endeavor never had an opportunity to be a part of Propel.



That interview is also incredibly simpler than a full Delta pilot interview. Which is what the DGI is. So where the EDV MEC is standing, and a majority of the pilot group, is saying hey, these guys get to come here, do their “field exercises” and then step right on over. While pilots on property get passed, and have/or had to slug it through a low pass rate yielding interview process.



Again it’s the optics. No credit is given to Endeavor pilots for the years of work that they have put in. Just their name on the list to show up and pay full price. But Propel pilots get credit for their time at Endeavor, because from interview to Delta right seat they have to fly at Endeavor. Which obviously has value to Delta in the Propel process, but not for the Endeavor pilots already here.



What Endeavor pilots want is something that is a trade off for contributing to Delta. Something that makes the process for an Endeavor pilot to Delta align with that of the Propel program.

Originally Posted by GuardPolice

Thank you for this level-headed response. Your candor is much appreciated.

Every airline, including mainline carriers, routinely selects people who have never operated 121. So I believe this part of your argument falls flat. Delta’s not reinventing anything here.

As for Propel pilots demonstrating moral character before an Endeavor pilot gets the chance...that’s also a weak argument. I see what you’re trying to say, but the main reason why Propel students/pilots don’t have a guarantee to get to Delta is because of this angle. What if one of these pilots changes over the years they are in the program and no longer represent what Delta is looking for? That’s why the job knowledge test and MMPI are not offered until right before the class date offer. It’s the last check before joining mainline.

Also, I’d contest the interview isn’t “incredibly simpler” than the DGI or OTS. It’s the same Delta interview spread out over several years. Talk about having a major thing hanging over your head for a very long time. I’ve seen these students’ eyes and faces as they arrived for their interview; the deer in the headlights look is popular.

I don’t want anyone in this discussion to believe I lack empathy for the 9E pilots in all of this. While I didn’t come up through the Delta regionals, the regional life still runs in my veins; it’s a part of who I am as a pilot still today. That said, this all boils down to control. Delta wants it, therefore, they have it. Control of who and how they hire. I can guarantee you and everyone in this thread Delta and those running Propel foresaw the DALPA and 9E ALPA response to the program. The former was an initial stakeholder in the Propel discussions so I think their current opinion of the program reflects more of the change in MECs and their hardline mentality regarding many topics vis-a-vis Delta.



GP

Originally Posted by Mesabah

Legally, you have to have a CJO to be medically evaluated for a position, that's why they withhold that from the Propellers.

Originally Posted by GuardPolice

It is one of the reasons but not the controlling reason why. So that begs the question if their QJO is the same as a CJO for this legal purpose.


GP

Originally Posted by GuardPolice

And ALPA, or any union/association for that matter, has never embellished a statement to serve their purpose?

Any pilot’s progression to Delta is virtually guaranteed if you follow one of their selection processes, prepare well and execute to a successful outcome.


GP