Retention
04-21-2022, 01:21 PM
#731
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,121
Originally Posted by edv2021
I like how you call it a “contract”. But I agree, everyone’s going to do that.
http://cpz.alpa.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=YFXW1hLuiWE%3D&tabid=100 77
^ They had a real contract too.
04-21-2022, 01:30 PM
#732
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2022
Posts: 118
Originally Posted by PilotBases
You can really tell the guys who hadn’t worked at EDV pre LOA91, let alone 61…
9E ALPA ain't done shi!.
Management came to them... every time. A bonus here, another bonus there, a flow here, and that's about it. ALPA just sat, listened, and signed the dotted line.
Not once did they speak up on our behalf. Probably, starstruck by the attention.
What pilots and their families need is something real and not tied to life changing penalties.
For example: Forget the 117 rules.
A 12 hour work day (actual flying) and 12 hours of rest. Nice and simple. No need to reference some obscure line in the contract. An annual pay raise of CPI + 2% (or more) would be nice, too. Actually, there are a ton of things worth negotiating...
It's not too difficult to do the right thing by the people you represent. Stop kissing management butt and get real.
04-21-2022, 01:34 PM
#733
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2022
Posts: 118
Originally Posted by LAXtoDEN
Cool story, why did your management come to the table in the first place. They don’t need you to increase pay rates, they can make that happen all by themselves, with or without you. It happened twice while I was employed at SkyWest.
You can thank other regionals for making 9E not competitive enough forcing them to come to the table in the first place to renegotiate pay and QOL.
Sure, I could thank you and Republic for increasing my pay rate as an FO a few years back. But I could also thank SkyWest for successfully growing the airline into your routes forcing your management to make adjustments to make 9E a more desirable airline! How far do we want to go back? It seems you think everything started with LOA 91.
You can thank other regionals for making 9E not competitive enough forcing them to come to the table in the first place to renegotiate pay and QOL.
Sure, I could thank you and Republic for increasing my pay rate as an FO a few years back. But I could also thank SkyWest for successfully growing the airline into your routes forcing your management to make adjustments to make 9E a more desirable airline! How far do we want to go back? It seems you think everything started with LOA 91.
04-22-2022, 03:07 AM
#734
Will FTI for food...
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 388
Originally Posted by PadraicPearse
9E ALPA ain't done shi!.
Management came to them... every time. A bonus here, another bonus there, a flow here, and that's about it. ALPA just sat, listened, and signed the dotted line.
Not once did they speak up on our behalf. Probably, starstruck by the attention.
What pilots and their families need is something real and not tied to life changing penalties.
For example: Forget the 117 rules.
A 12 hour work day (actual flying) and 12 hours of rest. Nice and simple. No need to reference some obscure line in the contract. An annual pay raise of CPI + 2% (or more) would be nice, too. Actually, there are a ton of things worth negotiating...
It's not too difficult to do the right thing by the people you represent. Stop kissing management butt and get real.
Management came to them... every time. A bonus here, another bonus there, a flow here, and that's about it. ALPA just sat, listened, and signed the dotted line.
Not once did they speak up on our behalf. Probably, starstruck by the attention.
What pilots and their families need is something real and not tied to life changing penalties.
For example: Forget the 117 rules.
A 12 hour work day (actual flying) and 12 hours of rest. Nice and simple. No need to reference some obscure line in the contract. An annual pay raise of CPI + 2% (or more) would be nice, too. Actually, there are a ton of things worth negotiating...
It's not too difficult to do the right thing by the people you represent. Stop kissing management butt and get real.
04-22-2022, 05:56 AM
#735
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2022
Posts: 118
Originally Posted by preflight
I’ve been talking about COLA and CPI tied raises for over a year and they don’t get it…8% of all their work destroyed in a couple months and they actually believe the “temporary” garbage story. There should be a like button!
04-22-2022, 09:42 PM
#737
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Position: 757/767
Posts: 389
Originally Posted by LAXtoDEN
Cool story, why did your management come to the table in the first place. They don’t need you to increase pay rates, they can make that happen all by themselves, with or without you. It happened twice while I was employed at SkyWest.
You can thank other regionals for making 9E not competitive enough forcing them to come to the table in the first place to renegotiate pay and QOL.
Sure, I could thank you and Republic for increasing my pay rate as an FO a few years back. But I could also thank SkyWest for successfully growing the airline into your routes forcing your management to make adjustments to make 9E a more desirable airline! How far do we want to go back? It seems you think everything started with LOA 91.
You can thank other regionals for making 9E not competitive enough forcing them to come to the table in the first place to renegotiate pay and QOL.
Sure, I could thank you and Republic for increasing my pay rate as an FO a few years back. But I could also thank SkyWest for successfully growing the airline into your routes forcing your management to make adjustments to make 9E a more desirable airline! How far do we want to go back? It seems you think everything started with LOA 91.
planned fleet reductions caused massive attrition, primarily FOs. There was some hiring by the major airlines at the time, but nothing like what we’re seeing right now. Quite a lot of it was lateral movement to places like PSA and Compass. Management had succeeding in making the FO job so undesirable that even with planes leaving the fleet, they were staring down the barrel of an uncontrollable staffing disaster.
To stabilize the situation, the original retention bonus LOA was signed. I believe it was 20k a year at the time, but importantly for only 4 years. It largely had the desired effect and the situation began to stabilize. Fast forward to when LOA 91 was being negotiated, and the company was now staring down the possibility of having the retention bonuses expire. It was clear to everyone, including management, that were that to happen, it would have an enormous impact on their ability to recruit and retain pilots. That was the leverage that made the big leap forward in pay rates possible. Republic more or less matched it a little while later and the rest is history.
04-23-2022, 04:16 AM
#738
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: the right side
Posts: 1,373
Originally Posted by 172skychicken
You are out to lunch on this. The retention bonuses came to be after the concessionary bankruptcy contract combined with
planned fleet reductions caused massive attrition, primarily FOs. There was some hiring by the major airlines at the time, but nothing like what we’re seeing right now. Quite a lot of it was lateral movement to places like PSA and Compass. Management had succeeding in making the FO job so undesirable that even with planes leaving the fleet, they were staring down the barrel of an uncontrollable staffing disaster.
To stabilize the situation, the original retention bonus LOA was signed. I believe it was 20k a year at the time, but importantly for only 4 years. It largely had the desired effect and the situation began to stabilize. Fast forward to when LOA 91 was being negotiated, and the company was now staring down the possibility of having the retention bonuses expire. It was clear to everyone, including management, that were that to happen, it would have an enormous impact on their ability to recruit and retain pilots. That was the leverage that made the big leap forward in pay rates possible. Republic more or less matched it a little while later and the rest is history.
planned fleet reductions caused massive attrition, primarily FOs. There was some hiring by the major airlines at the time, but nothing like what we’re seeing right now. Quite a lot of it was lateral movement to places like PSA and Compass. Management had succeeding in making the FO job so undesirable that even with planes leaving the fleet, they were staring down the barrel of an uncontrollable staffing disaster.
To stabilize the situation, the original retention bonus LOA was signed. I believe it was 20k a year at the time, but importantly for only 4 years. It largely had the desired effect and the situation began to stabilize. Fast forward to when LOA 91 was being negotiated, and the company was now staring down the possibility of having the retention bonuses expire. It was clear to everyone, including management, that were that to happen, it would have an enormous impact on their ability to recruit and retain pilots. That was the leverage that made the big leap forward in pay rates possible. Republic more or less matched it a little while later and the rest is history.
04-23-2022, 06:27 AM
#739
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Originally Posted by 172skychicken
You are out to lunch on this. The retention bonuses came to be after the concessionary bankruptcy contract combined with
planned fleet reductions caused massive attrition, primarily FOs. There was some hiring by the major airlines at the time, but nothing like what we’re seeing right now. Quite a lot of it was lateral movement to places like PSA and Compass. Management had succeeding in making the FO job so undesirable that even with planes leaving the fleet, they were staring down the barrel of an uncontrollable staffing disaster.
To stabilize the situation, the original retention bonus LOA was signed. I believe it was 20k a year at the time, but importantly for only 4 years. It largely had the desired effect and the situation began to stabilize. Fast forward to when LOA 91 was being negotiated, and the company was now staring down the possibility of having the retention bonuses expire. It was clear to everyone, including management, that were that to happen, it would have an enormous impact on their ability to recruit and retain pilots. That was the leverage that made the big leap forward in pay rates possible. Republic more or less matched it a little while later and the rest is history.
planned fleet reductions caused massive attrition, primarily FOs. There was some hiring by the major airlines at the time, but nothing like what we’re seeing right now. Quite a lot of it was lateral movement to places like PSA and Compass. Management had succeeding in making the FO job so undesirable that even with planes leaving the fleet, they were staring down the barrel of an uncontrollable staffing disaster.
To stabilize the situation, the original retention bonus LOA was signed. I believe it was 20k a year at the time, but importantly for only 4 years. It largely had the desired effect and the situation began to stabilize. Fast forward to when LOA 91 was being negotiated, and the company was now staring down the possibility of having the retention bonuses expire. It was clear to everyone, including management, that were that to happen, it would have an enormous impact on their ability to recruit and retain pilots. That was the leverage that made the big leap forward in pay rates possible. Republic more or less matched it a little while later and the rest is history.
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