Notices
Endeavor Air Regional Airline

Dangling carrot

Old 04-08-2022, 02:52 PM
  #11  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 79
Default Flow

Can anyone explain the flow. Company is saying two years once your a captain. Does that mean no matter what in two years you flow to delta at their earliest class date? Are there stipulations to the flow? I can’t seem to find any information on this.
SJS Maverick is offline  
Old 04-08-2022, 03:12 PM
  #12  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 411
Default

Originally Posted by SJS Maverick View Post
Can anyone explain the flow. Company is saying two years once your a captain. Does that mean no matter what in two years you flow to delta at their earliest class date? Are there stipulations to the flow? I can’t seem to find any information on this.
2 years from becoming a CA is the minimum. You will not flow in 24 months. We currently have around 2000 pilots. We flow 20/month, but attrition is around 50-60/month. At only 20/month, it would take you 100 months to flow. If attrition stays at 50ish, that number comes down to 40 months. The biggest factor is outside attrition. If it stays high, you’ll flow faster. If the retention bonus actually works, and people stay here till they go to DL, you’ll flow in 6-7 years.
13pro is offline  
Old 04-09-2022, 06:49 AM
  #13  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Ziggy's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Sofa Stress Tester
Posts: 614
Default

Originally Posted by 13pro View Post
2 years from becoming a CA is the minimum. You will not flow in 24 months. We currently have around 2000 pilots. We flow 20/month, but attrition is around 50-60/month. At only 20/month, it would take you 100 months to flow. If attrition stays at 50ish, that number comes down to 40 months. The biggest factor is outside attrition. If it stays high, you’ll flow faster. If the retention bonus actually works, and people stay here till they go to DL, you’ll flow in 6-7 years.

Just to add some context. RE's last email stated that 81% of captained has opted for the retention. And previous to that RE mentioned that only 16% of F/O had opted in. Add to this, that Delta is slowing the outside hiring of DC pilots, so outside of Flow attrition may very well fall.
Ziggy is offline  
Old 04-09-2022, 07:28 AM
  #14  
Line Holder
 
rjbusdriver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2021
Posts: 68
Default

Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
Just to add some context. RE's last email stated that 81% of captained has opted for the retention. And previous to that RE mentioned that only 16% of F/O had opted in. Add to this, that Delta is slowing the outside hiring of DC pilots, so outside of Flow attrition may very well fall.
Yup, I've heard of some guys get offered class dates at OO here 5 months later from when their interview/CJO was for delta whereas non DC pilots in their interview group were getting class dates with a month and a half
rjbusdriver is offline  
Old 04-09-2022, 07:58 AM
  #15  
Perennial Reserve
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,409
Default

Yeah. In this environment, waiting for a flow - or even being in a regional codesharing for where you WANT to go - is a negative.

The new shortest path to a major, unless you are a legacy or a highly desired diversity demographic is regional to ACMI or ULCC to legacy.
Excargodog is offline  
Old 04-09-2022, 08:20 AM
  #16  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Jan 2022
Posts: 37
Default

Originally Posted by rjbusdriver View Post
Yup, I've heard of some guys get offered class dates at OO here 5 months later from when their interview/CJO was for delta whereas non DC pilots in their interview group were getting class dates with a month and a half

If a 9E pilot was hired hired OTS today, they wouldn’t start with DAL until 2023. Unless they are propel, then they go straight to the top of the list jumping everyone else. Must be nice to be one of the anointed pilots.

And no - seniority and longevity starts the day you begin indoc at Delta, not the 9 months you hold a CJO while they hire 200 a month. Want to work a Delta quickly? Leave Endeavor ASAP!


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk
N0RD0 is offline  
Old 04-09-2022, 08:33 AM
  #17  
On Reserve
 
Joined APC: Jan 2022
Posts: 16
Default

Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
Yeah. In this environment, waiting for a flow - or even being in a regional codesharing for where you WANT to go - is a negative.

The new shortest path to a major, unless you are a legacy or a highly desired diversity demographic is regional to ACMI or ULCC to legacy.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is “ACMI”? I agree that the flow seems inordinately lengthy.
DeepThoughts is offline  
Old 04-09-2022, 08:52 AM
  #18  
Perennial Reserve
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,409
Default

Originally Posted by DeepThoughts View Post
Pardon my ignorance, but what is “ACMI”? I agree that the flow seems inordinately lengthy.
Atlas or similar.

https://www.atlasair.com/cargo-services/acmi/




Any big aircraft type (or better yet, a regional type AND a big aircraft type) is going to trump a regional only type when it comes to an OTS hire and the company would prefer to NOT hire from their own codeshare regional and handicap their own feed.

it isn’t personal, it’s just business. And no, the legacy pilots at your code-share major do not give a $hit about you, not even the alumni from your regional. They believe you are underbidding them for THEIR flying and, although better than scabs, aren’t just a whole lot better.

So get in, get hours, get the next step up the ladder as soon as possible, then the one after that. Waiting for flow is only for those who know that they’ll never get there without it.
Excargodog is offline  
Old 04-09-2022, 09:13 AM
  #19  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,077
Default

As I'm currently filling out my jetblue app as their window is open. With AA and UAL apps already filled out just waiting.

But yes if you want delta..go somewhere else. If you're here and years from flow find a lcc then apply.
Zerosilver84 is offline  
Old 04-10-2022, 09:15 PM
  #20  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Position: ATL FO
Posts: 189
Default

The ‘guaranteed progression’ model is looking pretty silly right now. I feel for the junior pilots who are taking the brunt of the broomstick on this deal.

“Take this quality of life hit for the foreseeable future while we dangle the carrot because, you’ll get there someday! Meanwhile we negotiate on the senior 9E pilots behalf for a guaranteed spot at Delta.” Even when those pilots have already been given the chance (some multiple times) and turned away.

The flow pilots are taking away CJOs or even the chance to get a CJO from some high quality pilots just because they haven’t driven an RJ for decades and it’s a shame. I don’t understand why brand new FOs, or really anyone outside the top 500 at Endeavor would sport that orange lanyard. Agreeing to that dumb flow really only benefits the people who couldn’t seem to progress on their own for whatever reason. Progression for all my butt.
JonGoodsell764 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
zippinbye
United
25
10-14-2015 08:54 AM
155mm
Safety
2
07-26-2015 05:56 PM
Skyler02
Regional
9
12-29-2014 02:00 PM
Jefferson
Endeavor Air
48
07-20-2014 06:23 PM
D B Cooper
Regional
23
02-22-2013 09:09 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices