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Old 10-23-2017, 09:35 AM   #16821  
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Originally Posted by Blueskies21 View Post
You may be right.

My point was in a dream world where they DO come back to the table, how long does it take to negotiate 2.0? A year? So October 2018, at which point we're back against the wall on the bonus expiration in January 2019.

Guys who think negotiating at that point with the bonus expiration right around the corner is better than now are CRAZY.
I see it differently.

Delta is offering us to go along with their ride and prosper with them.

If you slap their hand they like to teach people where they actually stand.

Their negotiating stance is that they hold all the cards and you have nothing. (Delta pilots can buck this stance because they actually do have some cards)

They want us to fly 700's and we are getting additional 900's. They can change that and just let our 200's go away without shifting any of those other aircraft from where they are now.

Then we are fat on pilots.

They don't renew the bonus and wait for section 6 negotiations in 2020. Stretch it out as long as they like.

At that point they can play hard ball or soft ball whatever suits them.

They own the balls.
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Old 10-23-2017, 09:44 AM   #16822  
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And just as a disclaimer:

If this wasn't a good deal I'd tell them to pound sand, but that's not the case.

This is a good deal.

It's exactly what we wanted, bonus to hard pay rates and some extras thrown in.
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Old 10-23-2017, 09:44 AM   #16823  
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Originally Posted by Blueskies21 View Post
You may be right.

My point was in a dream world where they DO come back to the table, how long does it take to negotiate 2.0? A year? So October 2018, at which point we're back against the wall on the bonus expiration in January 2019.

Guys who think negotiating at that point with the bonus expiration right around the corner is better than now are CRAZY.

How can anyone predict what the MIGHTY Delta will do and what their timeline would be? I mean whatís their bottom line, do they have a plan B? When I commute, I usually always have a plan B because things donít always go as planned. Just to give one example. And Iím pretty sure Delta doesnít Delta doesnít put all their eggs in one basket either. Would you? I mean, if you were building a house and contractors were scarce would you let the one you wanted bully you into paying a lot more than you wanted to? Or would you keep searching for other alternatives? Itís a business, and Delta is also responsible to their shareholders. They are not going to throw out more than they feel they need to right now. Why, because things change? How much more can the non-wholly owned airlines offer? At some point things will start to plateau, and Delta probably doesnít want to be too much above that if things start to level off. I feel pretty confident that if they need to throw more at us in the future, they will. Just my humble opinion
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Old 10-23-2017, 09:49 AM   #16824  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartok View Post
I see it differently.

Delta is offering us to go along with their ride and prosper with them.

If you slap their hand they like to teach people where they actually stand.

Their negotiating stance is that they hold all the cards and you have nothing. (Delta pilots can buck this stance because they actually do have some cards)

They want us to fly 700's and we are getting additional 900's. They can change that and just let our 200's go away without shifting any of those other aircraft from where they are now.

Then we are fat on pilots.

They don't renew the bonus and wait for section 6 negotiations in 2020. Stretch it out as long as they like.

At that point they can play hard ball or soft ball whatever suits them.

They own the balls.
What I fear more, is that in a few years, Delta will have a steady college bridge program of new pilots flowing into here, that are already hired as Delta pilots. Those pilots are not likely going to work for anything better than the status quo.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:14 AM   #16825  
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What I fear more, is that in a few years, Delta will have a steady college bridge program of new pilots flowing into here, that are already hired as Delta pilots. Those pilots are not likely going to work for anything better than the status quo.
Union needs to put its foot down on any of them coming through EDV.

I'd accept for every one that goes to Delta they take an EDV guy in seniority order (no interview, no stipulations) and then they could use EDV.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:30 AM   #16826  
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With the inevitable delay of the C series, Delta has options for their regional lift with Express Jet. They could easily breathe new life into that operation and buy them the time needed until the CS shows up.
I suggest taking the deal now and let the LOA's come as the market dictates. We can not force Delta's hand but the market will. The movement coming to our industry will be unbelievable. We haven't seen anything yet.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:30 AM   #16827  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartok View Post
I see it differently.

Delta is offering us to go along with their ride and prosper with them.

If you slap their hand they like to teach people where they actually stand.

Their negotiating stance is that they hold all the cards and you have nothing. (Delta pilots can buck this stance because they actually do have some cards)

They want us to fly 700's and we are getting additional 900's. They can change that and just let our 200's go away without shifting any of those other aircraft from where they are now.

Then we are fat on pilots.

They don't renew the bonus and wait for section 6 negotiations in 2020. Stretch it out as long as they like.

At that point they can play hard ball or soft ball whatever suits them.

They own the balls.
Agreed on all points.
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Old 10-23-2017, 11:46 AM   #16828  
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How long is long enough?

Lol

What you need to realize that this isn't about contract negotiations where we shoot for the moon, this is about turning a temporary bonus into hourly rates.

That's it.

We got that and more for a 4 year price tag extension.

I have no doubt that other regionals will follow the rates set in this TA and Delta will have to up the ante even more if the economy stays the same.

If the economy doesn't stay healthy we have the new rates.

Yep hurry up and fear vote this in now people, because no matter what these "High pay rates" are economically bullet proof just like last time...ohh wait.
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Old 10-23-2017, 11:49 AM   #16829  
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Yep hurry up and fear vote this in now people, because no matter what these "High pay rates" are economically bullet proof just like last time...ohh wait.
Better to maintain the pay level that is scheduled to go away after next year vs. putting in pay without an expiration?

Logical
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Old 10-23-2017, 11:53 AM   #16830  
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Better to maintain the pay level that is scheduled to go away after next year vs. putting in pay without an expiration?

Logical
Then you will have to further explain why 15-20 year guys are still behind their previous "contractual" pay rates seeing how that word somehow makes things irreversible.
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