Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Regional > Endeavor Air
Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor? >

Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?

Notices
Endeavor Air Regional Airline

Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?

Old 10-23-2017, 09:35 AM
  #16821  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Bartok's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Up Front
Posts: 1,628
Default

Originally Posted by Blueskies21 View Post
You may be right.

My point was in a dream world where they DO come back to the table, how long does it take to negotiate 2.0? A year? So October 2018, at which point we're back against the wall on the bonus expiration in January 2019.

Guys who think negotiating at that point with the bonus expiration right around the corner is better than now are CRAZY.
I see it differently.

Delta is offering us to go along with their ride and prosper with them.

If you slap their hand they like to teach people where they actually stand.

Their negotiating stance is that they hold all the cards and you have nothing. (Delta pilots can buck this stance because they actually do have some cards)

They want us to fly 700's and we are getting additional 900's. They can change that and just let our 200's go away without shifting any of those other aircraft from where they are now.

Then we are fat on pilots.

They don't renew the bonus and wait for section 6 negotiations in 2020. Stretch it out as long as they like.

At that point they can play hard ball or soft ball whatever suits them.

They own the balls.
Bartok is offline  
Old 10-23-2017, 09:44 AM
  #16822  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Bartok's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Up Front
Posts: 1,628
Default

And just as a disclaimer:

If this wasn't a good deal I'd tell them to pound sand, but that's not the case.

This is a good deal.

It's exactly what we wanted, bonus to hard pay rates and some extras thrown in.
Bartok is offline  
Old 10-23-2017, 09:44 AM
  #16823  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Default

Originally Posted by Blueskies21 View Post
You may be right.

My point was in a dream world where they DO come back to the table, how long does it take to negotiate 2.0? A year? So October 2018, at which point we're back against the wall on the bonus expiration in January 2019.

Guys who think negotiating at that point with the bonus expiration right around the corner is better than now are CRAZY.

How can anyone predict what the MIGHTY Delta will do and what their timeline would be? I mean what’s their bottom line, do they have a plan B? When I commute, I usually always have a plan B because things don’t always go as planned. Just to give one example. And I’m pretty sure Delta doesn’t Delta doesn’t put all their eggs in one basket either. Would you? I mean, if you were building a house and contractors were scarce would you let the one you wanted bully you into paying a lot more than you wanted to? Or would you keep searching for other alternatives? It’s a business, and Delta is also responsible to their shareholders. They are not going to throw out more than they feel they need to right now. Why, because things change? How much more can the non-wholly owned airlines offer? At some point things will start to plateau, and Delta probably doesn’t want to be too much above that if things start to level off. I feel pretty confident that if they need to throw more at us in the future, they will. Just my humble opinion
gojo is offline  
Old 10-23-2017, 09:49 AM
  #16824  
:-)
 
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Default

Originally Posted by Bartok View Post
I see it differently.

Delta is offering us to go along with their ride and prosper with them.

If you slap their hand they like to teach people where they actually stand.

Their negotiating stance is that they hold all the cards and you have nothing. (Delta pilots can buck this stance because they actually do have some cards)

They want us to fly 700's and we are getting additional 900's. They can change that and just let our 200's go away without shifting any of those other aircraft from where they are now.

Then we are fat on pilots.

They don't renew the bonus and wait for section 6 negotiations in 2020. Stretch it out as long as they like.

At that point they can play hard ball or soft ball whatever suits them.

They own the balls.
What I fear more, is that in a few years, Delta will have a steady college bridge program of new pilots flowing into here, that are already hired as Delta pilots. Those pilots are not likely going to work for anything better than the status quo.
Mesabah is offline  
Old 10-23-2017, 10:14 AM
  #16825  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Bartok's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Up Front
Posts: 1,628
Default

Originally Posted by Mesabah View Post
What I fear more, is that in a few years, Delta will have a steady college bridge program of new pilots flowing into here, that are already hired as Delta pilots. Those pilots are not likely going to work for anything better than the status quo.
Union needs to put its foot down on any of them coming through EDV.

I'd accept for every one that goes to Delta they take an EDV guy in seniority order (no interview, no stipulations) and then they could use EDV.
Bartok is offline  
Old 10-23-2017, 10:30 AM
  #16826  
Gets Weekends Off
 
JSDL's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Round Two
Posts: 371
Default

With the inevitable delay of the C series, Delta has options for their regional lift with Express Jet. They could easily breathe new life into that operation and buy them the time needed until the CS shows up.
I suggest taking the deal now and let the LOA's come as the market dictates. We can not force Delta's hand but the market will. The movement coming to our industry will be unbelievable. We haven't seen anything yet.
JSDL is offline  
Old 10-23-2017, 10:30 AM
  #16827  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 888
Default

Originally Posted by Bartok View Post
I see it differently.

Delta is offering us to go along with their ride and prosper with them.

If you slap their hand they like to teach people where they actually stand.

Their negotiating stance is that they hold all the cards and you have nothing. (Delta pilots can buck this stance because they actually do have some cards)

They want us to fly 700's and we are getting additional 900's. They can change that and just let our 200's go away without shifting any of those other aircraft from where they are now.

Then we are fat on pilots.

They don't renew the bonus and wait for section 6 negotiations in 2020. Stretch it out as long as they like.

At that point they can play hard ball or soft ball whatever suits them.

They own the balls.
Agreed on all points.
Blueskies21 is offline  
Old 10-23-2017, 11:46 AM
  #16828  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 183
Default

Originally Posted by Bartok View Post
How long is long enough?

Lol

What you need to realize that this isn't about contract negotiations where we shoot for the moon, this is about turning a temporary bonus into hourly rates.

That's it.

We got that and more for a 4 year price tag extension.

I have no doubt that other regionals will follow the rates set in this TA and Delta will have to up the ante even more if the economy stays the same.

If the economy doesn't stay healthy we have the new rates.

Yep hurry up and fear vote this in now people, because no matter what these "High pay rates" are economically bullet proof just like last time...ohh wait.
Edgecrusher28 is offline  
Old 10-23-2017, 11:49 AM
  #16829  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,532
Default

Originally Posted by Edgecrusher28 View Post
Yep hurry up and fear vote this in now people, because no matter what these "High pay rates" are economically bullet proof just like last time...ohh wait.
Better to maintain the pay level that is scheduled to go away after next year vs. putting in pay without an expiration?

Logical
Iceberg is offline  
Old 10-23-2017, 11:53 AM
  #16830  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 183
Default

Originally Posted by Iceberg View Post
Better to maintain the pay level that is scheduled to go away after next year vs. putting in pay without an expiration?

Logical
Then you will have to further explain why 15-20 year guys are still behind their previous "contractual" pay rates seeing how that word somehow makes things irreversible.
Edgecrusher28 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
StraightShooter
Endeavor Air
124
06-26-2023 10:23 AM
WARich
Delta
11220
06-10-2020 07:42 AM
Crash
Major
3437
01-30-2013 06:51 PM
shua757
Major
2
02-24-2009 06:44 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices