Originally Posted by higney85

We are getting at least 12 more -200's in 2017. Sources say not from IGM. The problem is that network planning is still working on the "plan" within, and with DL network planning, and it comes down to one piece... the pipeline of newhires, which is in negotiations now for the bonus converted to pay rates and the latest version of "come to Endeavor to get to Delta". 12 A/C is a net growth of at least 150 and with 180 (I believe that's the 2017 number) going to DL via SSP, that's 330 new hires needed, without factoring any other attrition to other carriers and retirements/med leave/mil leave/training failures, etc.

Last I was told the hiring number for 2017 was 450 or greater as the plan, and the more we can get the more flying we can get. There are other ASA/CPA agreements in play for dual class (700/900) A/C in addition to -200's that DL wants to operate with flexibility and no overhead margins (meaning a wholly owned -only 1- for that flying). On top of all of that the EMB program is supposedly back on the table to spool up Q4 2017. I found that last bit surprising, but the guy saying it had a title that has you in the ATL meetings.

The main point is that the chess pieces will constantly be moving, and while the economy and price of oil matters, scope matters, as DL holds the regional A/C size at a fixed limit with the latest TA, retirements are continuing, movement to DL is happening, hubs aren't changing in a negative fashion (meaning our current bases will remain), and the lowest denominator for Endeavor is new hires.

DL is smart in the game. The retention bonuses started here and others jumped on. AA then had to meet and exceed the DL offering and now DL is back at the table with Endeavor. Expect a "bonus" to be only for new hires, retention bonuses lumped into actual hourly rates, and a movement program to DL for the new hires that will likely make any Unsuccessful SSP'er a little upset. Bases that currently exist aren't changing, and NYC hours are seasonal. Fall/winter is high for DCI and spring/summer is lower. The vast majority of new hires are getting LGA or JFK due to both the seasonal change and the fleet changes at the same time. Keep in mind that NYC is junior at DL too, so it's not a sentencing but instead just a fact of business under a Delta paycheck.

Expect EFB's as the sole instrument by 3/1/17, co-domicile in NYC to follow, then dual qual. That's the next 18 months. In that timeframe the movement will be relatively quick to bases for those who truly want them for live-in/commute purposes (I say that now that secondaries on a first true bid for a new hire can allow movement to "escape NYC"), upgrades to happen quickly, although nyc will remain junior to hold a CA quickly, and it's heavily rumored that a "southern" base will exist in the coming 12-18 months, a southern base will likely be senior but allow lots of movement in DTW and MSP.

This concludes the October 2016 rumor and sourced "apcleaks".

Originally Posted by CODs4ever

Actually there were 3-4 July new hires who picked up DTW 200 as secondary vacancies on the 16-04. They are moving to DTW from NY in Dec or Jan as I recall. I suspect that was due to some guys leaving DTW to upgrade in NYC.

Originally Posted by WIPilot

Exactly. JA said what he did cause I dont think even the company knows. If I had to put money on something I'd say they will bleed MSP and DTW as long as it takes to fully fill JFK and LGA.

Originally Posted by musketeer

I agree with everything you said except for the above. Yes, they are. They are shrinking in MSP and DTW in a big way. If you are looking at Endeavor, you are looking at NYC.

Originally Posted by gojo

Ha ha, J.A. didn't even give me the curtesy of a response. And I hope you truly don't believe that even the company doesn't know. SkyWest and GoJet wouldn't just open a base there for a small amount of flying, or flying on a temporary basis. It takes a lot of recourses and coordination to facilitate the opening of a new base. In addition there would be a period of spooling up the base as staffing is shifted accordingly.

Originally Posted by gojo

Ha ha, J.A. didn't even give me the curtesy of a response. And I hope you truly don't believe that even the company doesn't know. SkyWest and GoJet wouldn't just open a base there for a small amount of flying, or flying on a temporary basis. It takes a lot of recourses and coordination to facilitate the opening of a new base. In addition there would be a period of spooling up the base as staffing is shifted accordingly.

Originally Posted by higney85

We are getting at least 12 more -200's in 2017. Sources say not from IGM. The problem is that network planning is still working on the "plan" within, and with DL network planning, and it comes down to one piece... the pipeline of newhires, which is in negotiations now for the bonus converted to pay rates and the latest version of "come to Endeavor to get to Delta". 12 A/C is a net growth of at least 150 and with 180 (I believe that's the 2017 number) going to DL via SSP, that's 330 new hires needed, without factoring any other attrition to other carriers and retirements/med leave/mil leave/training failures, etc.

Last I was told the hiring number for 2017 was 450 or greater as the plan, and the more we can get the more flying we can get. There are other ASA/CPA agreements in play for dual class (700/900) A/C in addition to -200's that DL wants to operate with flexibility and no overhead margins (meaning a wholly owned -only 1- for that flying). On top of all of that the EMB program is supposedly back on the table to spool up Q4 2017. I found that last bit surprising, but the guy saying it had a title that has you in the ATL meetings.

The main point is that the chess pieces will constantly be moving, and while the economy and price of oil matters, scope matters, as DL holds the regional A/C size at a fixed limit with the latest TA, retirements are continuing, movement to DL is happening, hubs aren't changing in a negative fashion (meaning our current bases will remain), and the lowest denominator for Endeavor is new hires.

DL is smart in the game. The retention bonuses started here and others jumped on. AA then had to meet and exceed the DL offering and now DL is back at the table with Endeavor. Expect a "bonus" to be only for new hires, retention bonuses lumped into actual hourly rates, and a movement program to DL for the new hires that will likely make any Unsuccessful SSP'er a little upset. Bases that currently exist aren't changing, and NYC hours are seasonal. Fall/winter is high for DCI and spring/summer is lower. The vast majority of new hires are getting LGA or JFK due to both the seasonal change and the fleet changes at the same time. Keep in mind that NYC is junior at DL too, so it's not a sentencing but instead just a fact of business under a Delta paycheck.

Expect EFB's as the sole instrument by 3/1/17, co-domicile in NYC to follow, then dual qual. That's the next 18 months. In that timeframe the movement will be relatively quick to bases for those who truly want them for live-in/commute purposes (I say that now that secondaries on a first true bid for a new hire can allow movement to "escape NYC"), upgrades to happen quickly, although nyc will remain junior to hold a CA quickly, and it's heavily rumored that a "southern" base will exist in the coming 12-18 months, a southern base will likely be senior but allow lots of movement in DTW and MSP.

This concludes the October 2016 rumor and sourced "apcleaks".

Originally Posted by higney85

JA's card is punched out of EDV. The company is still working with networking to figure out 2017 details and it revolves around newhires and training throughput.

Originally Posted by Kforekyle

I see, like Northwest was a great fit for Delta culture. Like oil and water. Come on get real!

Originally Posted by gojo

Well maybe, but think they have DTW and MSP figured out. And what keeps them for having more trips start and end in MSP or DTW with an increased presence in the New York system for the days in between?