Advice: Endeavor or Envoy
11-02-2016, 06:11 AM
#1
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 56
Advice: Endeavor or Envoy
Hello everyone. Yes, this my first post, but I have been a long time lurker on the site. This will be a long post, so for those of you who are willing to stick with it and provide guidance or advice, I appreciate it. Since I have viewed the site a lot, I am aware of a couple of things right up front. I have already read the many pages of Endeavor's and Envoy's current states. I have done as much research as I can. I need perspectives from people who have "been there" or who are "living it". Hindsight is 20/20, and I know no one can predict the future, but if you seek counsel and go in knowing as much as you can, usually things turn out. So....
I live in Muskegon, MI (KMKG), and I have my ATP. I have DTW (3.5 hr drive), ORD (3.5 hr drive), and GRR (1 hr drive) near me. I also have friends and a place I could stay in DFW. I love Michigan in the summer and Texas in the winter. I would rather not be in NYC, but I guess both airlines are sending people there. I have three checkride failures (CFI).
Ideally, I would eventually like to be based in ORD or DTW, but I wouldn't mind DFW for training and sitting reserve. I would need a crashpad for ORD, DTW, or NYC reserve.
Endeavor:
Pros
My buddy works for them and says they are a great group of people to work with
Top pay now
Cons
I may never get to a major with my checkride failures
Retention bonus could go away
Envoy:
Pros
DFW would be best for reserve. No crashpad, no commute.
Flow to AA
Travel benefits
Cons
Reserve seems pretty long
People (on this site) seem like they hate their schedules/lines
Pay drop 2nd year
Could the flow go away?
On a related note, I have a training contract for $8,300 which is up in 5 months. Is it worth it to pay that money back and get ahead in seniority or should I wait?
Thank you for making it this far. I know ultimately I have to make the decision, but any insight is fully appreciated.
I live in Muskegon, MI (KMKG), and I have my ATP. I have DTW (3.5 hr drive), ORD (3.5 hr drive), and GRR (1 hr drive) near me. I also have friends and a place I could stay in DFW. I love Michigan in the summer and Texas in the winter. I would rather not be in NYC, but I guess both airlines are sending people there. I have three checkride failures (CFI).
Ideally, I would eventually like to be based in ORD or DTW, but I wouldn't mind DFW for training and sitting reserve. I would need a crashpad for ORD, DTW, or NYC reserve.
Endeavor:
Pros
My buddy works for them and says they are a great group of people to work with
Top pay now
Cons
I may never get to a major with my checkride failures
Retention bonus could go away
Envoy:
Pros
DFW would be best for reserve. No crashpad, no commute.
Flow to AA
Travel benefits
Cons
Reserve seems pretty long
People (on this site) seem like they hate their schedules/lines
Pay drop 2nd year
Could the flow go away?
On a related note, I have a training contract for $8,300 which is up in 5 months. Is it worth it to pay that money back and get ahead in seniority or should I wait?
Thank you for making it this far. I know ultimately I have to make the decision, but any insight is fully appreciated.
11-02-2016, 06:23 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,202
FIrst thing first...
Have you interviewed in both places? That would be the first step. Once you have the job offer pick the one you think it will be better for you.
The flow at envoy is great to have in the back pocket. Endevour only offers a guaranteed interview and it seems that less than 50% of the SSPs are passing it.
I don't know how low LGA will go in seniority for the next few months, but ORD 145 is the JR base and equipment. Worst case you get LGA and bid back Dfw or ORD via a vacancy or IMDT.
Your checkride failures it won't be an issue in 4-5yrs anyway, unless you fail any part 121 checkride. Then it could be a problem, but in 2020 the industry will be very different and may not be a factor.
Lines at envoy are not great, but you can always trade sequences and get better things.
Good luck with your reasearch.
Have you interviewed in both places? That would be the first step. Once you have the job offer pick the one you think it will be better for you.
The flow at envoy is great to have in the back pocket. Endevour only offers a guaranteed interview and it seems that less than 50% of the SSPs are passing it.
I don't know how low LGA will go in seniority for the next few months, but ORD 145 is the JR base and equipment. Worst case you get LGA and bid back Dfw or ORD via a vacancy or IMDT.
Your checkride failures it won't be an issue in 4-5yrs anyway, unless you fail any part 121 checkride. Then it could be a problem, but in 2020 the industry will be very different and may not be a factor.
Lines at envoy are not great, but you can always trade sequences and get better things.
Good luck with your reasearch.
11-02-2016, 06:27 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 336
Originally Posted by Antoine137
Hello everyone. Yes, this my first post, but I have been a long time lurker on the site. This will be a long post, so for those of you who are willing to stick with it and provide guidance or advice, I appreciate it. Since I have viewed the site a lot, I am aware of a couple of things right up front. I have already read the many pages of Endeavor's and Envoy's current states. I have done as much research as I can. I need perspectives from people who have "been there" or who are "living it". Hindsight is 20/20, and I know no one can predict the future, but if you seek counsel and go in knowing as much as you can, usually things turn out. So....
I live in Muskegon, MI (KMKG), and I have my ATP. I have DTW (3.5 hr drive), ORD (3.5 hr drive), and GRR (1 hr drive) near me. I also have friends and a place I could stay in DFW. I love Michigan in the summer and Texas in the winter. I would rather not be in NYC, but I guess both airlines are sending people there. I have three checkride failures (CFI).
Ideally, I would eventually like to be based in ORD or DTW, but I wouldn't mind DFW for training and sitting reserve. I would need a crashpad for ORD, DTW, or NYC reserve.
Endeavor:
Pros
My buddy works for them and says they are a great group of people to work with
Top pay now
Cons
I may never get to a major with my checkride failures
Retention bonus could go away
Envoy:
Pros
DFW would be best for reserve. No crashpad, no commute.
Flow to AA
Travel benefits
Cons
Reserve seems pretty long
People (on this site) seem like they hate their schedules/lines
Pay drop 2nd year
Could the flow go away?
On a related note, I have a training contract for $8,300 which is up in 5 months. Is it worth it to pay that money back and get ahead in seniority or should I wait?
Thank you for making it this far. I know ultimately I have to make the decision, but any insight is fully appreciated.
I live in Muskegon, MI (KMKG), and I have my ATP. I have DTW (3.5 hr drive), ORD (3.5 hr drive), and GRR (1 hr drive) near me. I also have friends and a place I could stay in DFW. I love Michigan in the summer and Texas in the winter. I would rather not be in NYC, but I guess both airlines are sending people there. I have three checkride failures (CFI).
Ideally, I would eventually like to be based in ORD or DTW, but I wouldn't mind DFW for training and sitting reserve. I would need a crashpad for ORD, DTW, or NYC reserve.
Endeavor:
Pros
My buddy works for them and says they are a great group of people to work with
Top pay now
Cons
I may never get to a major with my checkride failures
Retention bonus could go away
Envoy:
Pros
DFW would be best for reserve. No crashpad, no commute.
Flow to AA
Travel benefits
Cons
Reserve seems pretty long
People (on this site) seem like they hate their schedules/lines
Pay drop 2nd year
Could the flow go away?
On a related note, I have a training contract for $8,300 which is up in 5 months. Is it worth it to pay that money back and get ahead in seniority or should I wait?
Thank you for making it this far. I know ultimately I have to make the decision, but any insight is fully appreciated.
Last edited by flyviper; 11-02-2016 at 06:29 AM. Reason: spelling
11-02-2016, 06:40 AM
#5
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 46
I would not be concerned with checkride failures. I'm a military pilot now but had three busts in the civilian world before joining (PP, CFI, Initial Jet type). I've had several types and checks since then. ATP AMEL, Comm helo, ASES, ASEL, AMES, as long as you corrected your issue you are fine. Dont feed into the failed checkride phobia. Own it, correct it, move on. If I worried about what ifs all the time I'd probably never make it through a typical day of flying with negative first and second segments.
11-02-2016, 06:44 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: CRJ 900 FO
Posts: 138
Don't sweat the failures. A good friend of mine is in training at Delta right now with a couple failures at a 141 school. I also have two failures (both CFI related) and have a job offer at Delta. As long as you own up to them and take away the positive and have no failures in the 121 environment you will be fine.
11-02-2016, 06:47 AM
#9
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 46
This is 100% truth. They don't care. More concerned if you are a douche that can't say, I was unsat, required additional training, satisfactory check afterwards. No excuses. Doesn't matter what you think happened. The only thing that happened was you did not meet the standard, you corrected it, and you had a change in behavior due to experience "learning"
Originally Posted by Jkurtfly
Don't sweat the failures. A good friend of mine is in training at Delta right now with a couple failures at a 141 school. I also have two failures (both CFI related) and have a job offer at Delta. As long as you own up to them and take away the positive and have no failures in the 121 environment you will be fine.
11-02-2016, 06:52 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 699
Some do care. Piedmont is not interviewing anyone with more than 2 failures.
https://www.pilothiring.com/pilot-jo...-145-7404.html
Minimum qualifications for consideration include:
· 1500 total hours for applicants
· Possess a commercial multi-engine license, an instrument rating, and an English Proficient Endorsement
· Passport
· FCC Radiotelephone Operator Permit
· Current First Class Medical Certificate
· No DUI’s in the last five years
· No more than two notices of disapproval
https://www.pilothiring.com/pilot-jo...-145-7404.html
Minimum qualifications for consideration include:
· 1500 total hours for applicants
· Possess a commercial multi-engine license, an instrument rating, and an English Proficient Endorsement
· Passport
· FCC Radiotelephone Operator Permit
· Current First Class Medical Certificate
· No DUI’s in the last five years
· No more than two notices of disapproval
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