Does/Will Envoy Get a SAP
 

Just curious as I have just been exposed to the SAP program and it sounds great, however I don't think many regionals offer this. Is that true? Any word on the pilot groups/unions pushing for this?

Thank You

How exactly does SAP work?

It allows you to trade trips with the open time pot without looking at rsv coverage.

Btw, be careful with Envoy. Someone told me they can award a line with some 1 day off breaks between trips. Imagine ending at 10:30pm and starting at 6:00am with one day off and a commute. This isn't pre 2007 who don't have to live like that anymore.

I heard they just keep you in a prison cell until your next trip.

SAP is an amazing QOL tool at PSA. I'm not aware of any other regionals that have a similar process. IMO, it would be a tough sell to management for anyone to negotiate for it. Our management at PSA is not a fan of the SAP and it has created major staffing difficulties for them during holidays.

We're about to do our last SAP bid at Horizon before switching to PBS. It was the best thing ever. It will be sorely missed.

Yeah it sounds like it is a very nice tool for the pilots, **** one for management.

I just went through the 175 line for last month and that isn't the case, at least not that I could see. Perhaps on reserve but even then I don't think so. I remember something coming out from ALPA last month saying that they are working on improving the bid lines and it appears to already be taking effect.

Republic just signed one in, with a holiday lock out. They will be the first to run pbs and a sap.

Sounds like a nice combination, saves management during critical times while giving the pilots lots of freedom the rest of the year.

I have a feeling that's what's going to happen to our SAP. I can't see management letting what happen last holiday happen again. I bet they rather crash SAP "accidentally" then let it go through for NOV/DEC.

I came from a PBS system. I liked it as I could easily see what days I could realistically hold off on reserve.

Na, PSA union is a bunch of cowards. They combined CVG/DAY and TYS/DCA. To prevent diluting the reps voteing power. Same amount of reps from 480 pilots to 1500. They will soon realize that there precious pre 900 pilots can hold Christmas off through vacation and line bidding, and that only the junior 1,000 pilots are benefiting from holiday sap. They will throw it away for 1 more flow a month which disproportionally helps them as the upper 300.

To answer the original question; no Envoy does not have SAP.

Considering that the management posters on apc think our QoL problems are all imagined, it seems safe to say that we won't be getting SAP or any other improvements any time soon.

Envoy does have trip trading which allows you to trade same day trips for more pay or easier commuting etc. and depending on reserve coverage it will let you switch days. It's easy to move your week day trip to a weekend but the opposite not so much. And trade a 3 day for a 4 day no problem. But almost never can you trade a 4 day to a 3 day. The nice thing is it's automated and realtime. Takes less than one second to process.

For captains who spend 4 years on reserve in ORD this isn't much consolation.

Wow wow wow....this place needs to get used to 5 1/4" floppy drives first. Lol. Seriously...my take is the senior pilot group doesn't seem to trust it. I had it at another airline and liked it big time.

I am new to this 121 game, but with SAP, can't you trade out of every weekend and holiday, and just work the days that you want to? Also, can't you work very little some months (I think 65 hours is the least) and work as much as you want on other months?

With SAP, if I wanted to get a week off for a vacation, without using my actual vacation, can't I do this?

Who wouldn't every airline pilot want this? It sounds great.

So if there are negative reserves on a particular day, it lets you trade out of that day?

Curious to see what this SAP thing is. Our system at LXJT, during the initial line improvement window, you can drop 4 day trips completely with another trade or trade a 4 day for a 1 day. I regularly get 19-21 days off a month with it. But it's all based on reserve pool numbers and who gets in the queue first. Is SAP something like that?

Remember not EVERYONE can get the holiday off. Someone has to work the flights. It's not like the airline shuts down for the day.

Yes, but the trade only window runs for 24 hours. All other tradeing requires rsv coverage to be adequate.
The flying that hits the pot from this process is distributed to the rsv pilots when they are bidding their days off. Almost every month there is enough trips to create full lines and rsv pilots can avoid rsv by bidding the leftover lines of trips.
It works good when the server keeps up with all the tradeing.
Christmas becomes a problem because everyone trades out of their Christmas trip, and it leaves more Christmas trips in the pot than available reserves. Then the company has to pay extra to get guys to pick up a Christmas trip.
It makes since to everyone not senior or on a negotiating committee. Those types think holiday pay is dollars in a contract not steered towards them. Get your first raise from the company and your second from your peers.

There isn't a chance in hell that management would entertain a conversation for SAP.