RTP Advice - Envoy or PSA?
 

Okay, so having interviewed with both, I now have offers from both. I am leaning towards PSA for no reason other than I think the commute will be better for me. I live midway between DC and Charlotte, so I could easily drive to either if necessary. And with family in DC, I wouldn't need a crash pad if I successfully bid there. None of Envoy's bases provide this level of convenience.

Reading through these forums and other online sources, it is hard to say which airline is the better option for a new hire. The programs look pretty similar, and upgrade times look about the same. Frankly, as a former military helicopter pilot, this is all very overwhelming.

My goal is to fly regional and then apply to other carriers or move to corporate as soon as I have the hours. So, I am not terribly concerned about flow to American.

I know these questions often degenerate quickly, but I am hoping someone can help me gain confidence in my decision. As Envoy pilots or followers, can you tell me why I might choose Envoy despite the commute issue? What as a newbie in this industry am I overlooking?

Thanks for the help.

Not commuting is worth a lot.

I'm an Envoy guy, but as previously stated, the commute can make or break this job. If you think you can drive to a PSA base, do it! Commuting can turn this job into a living hell compared to driving to work. I used to commute, and now I drive to work. It's a completely different job, night and day difference. I don't particularly like living in the base I'm in, but I hate commuting even more.

I would not choose Envoy when you could drive to a PSA base. I would recommend Envoy to anyone except commuters who have a choice of another airline that they could drive to. As a whole I think Envoy is a better choice seeing the PSA MEC just had a "no confidence vote" on their CEO. Good luck which ever you choose.

That first paragraph of yours answered your question. Always always drive to work.

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All of these replies are honest opinions from current Envoy guys. In before the company salesmen and recruiters come in and start spewing some nonsense. Both airlines are wholly owned by AAG with pretty comparable pay and benefits. There are some small pros and cons to each. But nothing Envoy has to offer over PSA is worth commuting to. Now, if you asked if you should commute to Envoy or drive to work at Mesa or Gojet, then my answer would be different.

Thanks, everyone. It is a 2-3 hour drive to PSA's DC base, but it is doable. And again, I have family in DC who has offered to let me crash with them whenever I need.

It's reassuring to hear others agree that PSA may be the better option for me, especially coming from an Envoy pilot.

That's a long drive, but it beats the hell out of trying to find flights that work around your schedule, stress about whether or not you'll get on, or have to commute in a day early because your sign in is before any flights make it in. Or finishing a trip and not being able to go until the next day because all of the flights have left. You just don't realize how stressful and miserable commuting is until you've lived it. It might not sound horrible from the surface, but it is.

Seriously man, if you can take one that doesn't involve a commute, take it. The difference in the end is negligible on all other matters but the commute is such a quality of life issue that it rates near the top of my list. I work at Envoy and have very few issues with them, so take that for whats its worth. In addition, I commute, it sucks. The stress, worry and lost time sucks the life out of you, seriously, not kidding. I love my job but the commute part makes me not even want to do it anymore sometimes, lol.

PSA all the way in my opinion.

I sincerely appreciate the candid responses from those of you commuting. For those that have said it sucks, can I ask how far your commute is? I plan to fly to DC from my local airport when my schedule allows me as my drive will be hours. And there is always the chance I won't get DC as my base, in which case, I am stuck commuting like you guys.

I fly from Phoenix to Dallas, so about a two hour commute. Heres the thing for me, its not so much the time that it takes to commute or even the schedules, as the I am able to build my schedule to allow me to commute it without losing very much time. What causes all the stress, at least for me, is the added pressure of booking the flights, figuring out the time change differences so that you check in on time, verifying loads and so on. Its all the small busy work details.

When you take all of that into account and THEN add in the fact that AA has no problem overselling their flights by 10-20 seats, the stress really picks up. I have gone to bed at night with 30 open seats and by the time I wake up and check the loads, it is oversold by 10. I now have to shoot out of bed, make a mad dash to the airport several hours before I really need to, just to try and catch an earlier flight, all the while praying that a jump seat remains open and an AA guy doesn't decide to take the same flight. This is frustrating and ****ty if you ask me, but it won't change anytime soon.

Commuting is doable, I do it as do many others, it just adds extra time, effort and un-needed stress to the job. Hub to Hub commuting is much worse then outstation to hub commuting so if you can do that, you will have a much better time. You will be traveling on your own metal, which gives you priority and the loads tend to be lighter and more consistent.

On that note, it is 6:30am here and I am now already starting to get ready for my commute to Dallas for my 6:30pm start time tonight. Do the math, thats 12 extra hours of dealing with work stuff that a local guy/gal doesn't have to worry about.

I live in PHX, but was trying to decide between ENY and PSA. Giving a more serious look at PSA, because of the SAP. How easy of a commute would it be from PHX-CLT. Probably the same difficulty, since it's hub to hub, right?

Any other base in PSA's system wouldn't work for me, because it would be a two leg jump.

Given that both PHX and CLT are both ex-US hubs, that sounds like a particularly bad commute. Out of PHX at MQ you'd have both ORD and DFW as options, as well as the possibility of LAX down the road. Plus you'd avoid the history of PSA, but that's a discussion for another thread...

Thanks to all who responded. I truly appreciate all of the candid responses.

I'm not sure what that guy that posted above is thinking, but I've done PHX-DFW and ORD in my 4 years at Envoy. I would never commute earlier than the required time. As long as you list yourself for 2 flights that are scheduled to arrive before your show time, you're covered by the commuter policy if you don't make it on. There's no reason to head to the airport 10 hours before your show time.

Going home is a different story, I'll do pretty much anything to get home ASAP. Usually there's a seat or a jumpseat available. If not I look for 2 leg options that are a sure thing. I've never been stranded in DFW for the night not able to get home.

Commuting is a mind set. You can either live where you want and commute to Envoy for 7 years and end up home based at AA, or live somewhere less desirable (to me) and hope your base doesn't close. I'd much rather put up with commuting that have to move to DFW, but that's just me.

Not sure how PHX-CLT would work for you. I sure do wish we had SAP at Envoy, but personally, I would sign up for a transcon commute for it. Commuting from out west to the east is hard on the body. I'm not sure I'd want to make it any harder by adding an extra hour on the time change and an extra 2 hours on the flight.

2 time zones would be pretty brutal.

You are doing a good old fashioned over kill, dude. Give yourself a little more time to become experienced at the commuting game. It doesn't need to be as stressful as you are making it out to be. There's guys out of DFW that commute from the most random of places who don't sweat it nearly a fraction as I think you are. Come to think of it....there are a handful of guys who have been commuting out of PHX since the mid 2000s. Maybe find one of them and ask for some advice? One of them is a CA on the 175...you'll probably fly with him soon enough if you haven't already.

Perhaps I over stated. I understand the commuter policy, used one already. When I said getting ready it was generally referencing the fact that I was already thinking about the logistics of getting there, not that I was walking out the door. The commute to DFW is doable no doubt as is evidenced by only needing one policy so far, but my point to the person I originally responded to is that if you can do this job without commuting you will be better served, in my opinion.

Thanks for your guys' helpful insights. I'm also leaning very strongly towards Envoy right now. I currently live in ELP. I was thinking this would be an easier commute because it's not a hub, but has multiple direct flights to DFW. Anyone have an opinion on something like an ELP to DFW commute?

Lots of flights to DFW. Besides maybe PHX it's probably the best option if you choose to commute out of ELP. You might have to do a short stint in ORD when you get hired but it wouldn't last forever and you'd probably be able to bid out relatively quickly assuming you can stay off the CRJ

Within 3 hours of a base, drive. If you are farther than that commute. The act of commuting is not stressful at all. At Envoy you get 6 CP's (can't make it to work) per year.

The TIME LOST commuting can be huge. You will loose the time spent waiting for your flight home, delays, mtx, coming the night prior or leaving a day after your trip. For some, it is a benefit of the job for others it is a curse or somewhere in between.

When deciding which company or which base, remember that things change quickly at the regionals and a little less at the Legacy carriers.

For the poster in the mid-Atlantic area, go for the PSA DCA base, you won't be disappointed. AA has bases there too for your future planning, in case you don't go corporate or something. Also, the NY commute is always a temporary option if/when you flow until you can hold DCA.

Anyone gone through the Envoy RTP lately? I start in September and just wondering what to expect.

It will not prepare you for the written. If I recall correctly it's 4 days of ground and 3 days of sim. Get Sheppard air to study for the written. Good luck!

This looks like advice for the ATP-CTP. I don't know anything about RTP though.

You can make more money living in base. Overtime is paid at 200%. In base, pick up a turn or 2 on a day off and you're back home that night. Commuters won't bother.

I commute from ATL and don't consider it hell. Would I prefer driving, yes. I could have gone to ExpressJet but chose the commute and Envoy. I make the best I can out of the commute...have the Gogo inflight internet and Amazon Prime/ watch movies and on the web.

Small correction - OT is 150% unless the company declares critical coverage, then it is upped to 200%.

Either way you're going to love those AA flight benefits!