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Old 10-03-2017, 03:08 PM   #1  
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Default 121 guy looking to apply to Envoy.

Hey all,

I spent some time looking around the rest of the posts (there are so many) but I couldn't find all the answers to what I'm looking for. Hopefully someone on here can help out!

I'm already flying at another regional, yea yea I'm planning on doing the lateral move, oh well. Things aren't so great where I am now and I am interested in switching possibly to Envoy. So, that being said...

How probable is ORD out of training? What equipment flies out of ORD?

LGA?

Does a new hire get a say in election to equipment? (I would obviously prefer the 175 or the 700)

Is the 21k bonus only offered with a 2 year commitment?

Is your min daily credit really 3.7/3.9? Would you say lines are pretty well built so you generally overblock your min daily credit?

Average credit for junior-ish lineholders? Days off?

Junior manning?

What does deadheading pay at?

Is dropping, swapping, trading, etc do-able? At my current company it's impossible to drop anything ever for instance.

Aside from all bonuses, what is 1st year FO pay? 2nd year? (how bad of a paycut is it basically?)

How is upgrade time realistically looking? Would that change if I already have around 800hrs of 121 time?

Is this 3 month CA upgrade award a real thing?

Average reserve time?

Commuting clause or policy?

I'm not familiar with the American benefits so I'm interested a little in how they work.

Is listing on 1st class free? (On United you have to pay additionally to list for 1st, for example.)

I hear listing is first come first serve REGARDLESS of seniority or if Mainline/Eagle. Is this true?

Buddy pass? Or adding "Friends" to benefits?

Anyways, thank you guys for taking the time to read and answer if you do. Also, if anybody wants a referral bonus feel free to send me a private message!
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Old 10-03-2017, 04:37 PM   #2  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstanotherpilot View Post
Hey all,

I spent some time looking around the rest of the posts (there are so many) but I couldn't find all the answers to what I'm looking for. Hopefully someone on here can help out!

I'm already flying at another regional, yea yea I'm planning on doing the lateral move, oh well. Things aren't so great where I am now and I am interested in switching possibly to Envoy. So, that being said...

How probable is ORD out of training? What equipment flies out of ORD?
ORD has all equipment. It would be easy to get ORD out of training on your choice of equipment. (May not be able to get 175. Good chance though.)

LGA? Just 145. You could get this one too.

Does a new hire get a say in election to equipment? (I would obviously prefer the 175 or the 700) yes sorta. Pipeline guys pick first. Prior 121 by most 121 time. The age for everyone else.

Is the 21k bonus only offered with a 2 year commitment? Yes. 40k with more than 800 hours 121. (New program ask recruiter. Details aren't published yet. )

Is your min daily credit really 3.7/3.9? Would you say lines are pretty well built so you generally overblock your min daily credit? No min day credit. DFW daily credit avg is 4ish. Mia/LGA is 5ish

Average credit for junior-ish lineholders? 75-82 Days off? 11-12

Junior manning?

Not much going on now. History of rampant JM.

What does deadheading pay at? 75%

Is dropping, swapping, trading, etc do-able? At my current company it's impossible to drop anything ever for instance.
Dropping = NO. Trade= yes

Aside from all bonuses, what is 1st year FO pay? 2nd year? (how bad of a paycut is it basically?)

Base pay increases a few dollars and bonus kicks in 2500 per quarter.

How is upgrade time realistically looking? Would that change if I already have around 800hrs of 121 time?

You will upgrade at 1000 hours. Likely LGA

Is this 3 month CA upgrade award a real thing?

It's likely to go to 3 weeks.

Average reserve time?
Varies from base to base. 6-12 weeks of flying reserve.

Commuting clause or policy?

Two attempts required to use CP.

I'm not familiar with the American benefits so I'm interested a little in how they work.

Is listing on 1st class free? (On United you have to pay additionally to list for 1st, for example.)

I hear listing is first come first serve REGARDLESS of seniority or if Mainline/Eagle. Is this true?

Buddy pass? Or adding "Friends" to benefits?

First class is free. 16 one way flights for friends. Spouse and parents get unlimited flights. EVERYONE at AAG is treated the same for flight benefits.

Anyways, thank you guys for taking the time to read and answer if you do. Also, if anybody wants a referral bonus feel free to send me a private message!
Answers in your post. ^^^^

Lots of really good questions.

I would end with some answers are fluid.

Good luck.
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:47 AM   #3  
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Another 121 looking to make the side move. With some questions.
Looking at LGA base.
How long as an FO to get off reserve there?

I have well over 1000 hours 121, but don't need the PIC time so looking to stay FO until I can hold a line as a captain and figure out the Envoy way of doing things. Are they junior manning to left seat at LGA?

This may be a question for a different thread and I'm sure there are "detailed discussions" of this question on other threads. I'll probably regret asking this one, but is there a long-term plan to merge PSA/Envoy? Or does it seem the AAL plan is to keep them apart and play them off against each other?
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:48 AM   #4  
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Ask again after they run the bid tomorrow. Then we'll know if newhires are getting forced into the left seat.
I've heard faint rumors of a merger but wouldn't bet on it anytime soon.
I'm not based out of LGA but my impression is about a month.
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Old 10-10-2017, 06:11 AM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawk View Post
Another 121 looking to make the side move. With some questions.
Looking at LGA base.
How long as an FO to get off reserve there? Shouldn't take long to get off reserve. Maybe a month or two at most.

I have well over 1000 hours 121, but don't need the PIC time so looking to stay FO until I can hold a line as a captain and figure out the Envoy way of doing things. Are they junior manning to left seat at LGA? The are not "junior manning" to the left seat. There is talk of DISPLACING to the left seat, but as of yet we don't know if that's actually going to happen or not.

This may be a question for a different thread and I'm sure there are "detailed discussions" of this question on other threads. I'll probably regret asking this one, but is there a long-term plan to merge PSA/Envoy? Or does it seem the AAL plan is to keep them apart and play them off against each other? Rumors of a merger happening in the not-too-distant future, but as of now, no indication from management of either airline or union of this becoming a reality. In terms of AAL "playing us off one another", they really can't afford to do that given the hiring problems all wholly-owneds are having right now.
Answered above.

If I were you, I'd take the extra 20k and go straight to the left seat. If you want to minimize reserve from the left seat, do LGA or MIA 145.
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Old 10-10-2017, 06:43 AM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerface View Post
Answered above.

If I were you, I'd take the extra 20k and go straight to the left seat. If you want to minimize reserve from the left seat, do LGA or MIA 145.
When you say go straight to the left seat, how does that work? They arenít hiring Street CAs so does one have to finish FO training first and then go through upgrade?
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Old 10-10-2017, 06:51 AM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerface View Post
Answered above.

If I were you, I'd take the extra 20k and go straight to the left seat. If you want to minimize reserve from the left seat, do LGA or MIA 145.
Wasnít the 20k extra if you had 1000 121 time. I donít remember it being tied to the left seat.
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:41 AM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerface View Post
Answered above.

If I were you, I'd take the extra 20k and go straight to the left seat. If you want to minimize reserve from the left seat, do LGA or MIA 145.
Thanks for the level-headed and helpful answers. I'll be giving up 18+ years seniority, pay, and QOL, but I really don't feel like being two levels below the client anymore and being forced to make a change in another 5 years.
Currently LGA based and live nearby, so that's my first choice anyway.
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:31 AM   #9  
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Default Posted on Endeavors forum as well

I am truly torn about what to? Envoy or Endeavor? The new TA at EDV is ok. Will Envoy come up, quite possibly! For now here are the things dancing around in my head;

Quicker Command at Envoy than EDV in NY. Will the TA change that, not sure at EDV. I have the time and would like the left seat and am quite aware of what that means. Envoy has four hotels each month.

MIA base. Probably a few years off but I do think EDV will ever have a FL base except for MAYBE, MCO. If the TA gets signed this might be more likely to happen than if it gets voted down but I would hazard a guess, it's a ways off.

Slightly better pass travel at AA than DL. Probably a wash as you will always be in economy anyway. I guess it depends an where, and how often, you want to though.

Flow. I honestly have no desire to fly for AA but it's there. DL I would love to but get in line and a high rejection rate. A flow would have changed that for me personally.

It's almost as bad having too many choices. I flew (rated in the CRJ) but I don't think it really matters, CRJ vs EMB. Yes, I know there are many other variables but for today.

Thanks for any insight.
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:16 AM   #10  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boats and Hos View Post
I am truly torn about what to? Envoy or Endeavor? The new TA at EDV is ok. Will Envoy come up, quite possibly! For now here are the things dancing around in my head;

Quicker Command at Envoy than EDV in NY. Will the TA change that, not sure at EDV. I have the time and would like the left seat and am quite aware of what that means. Envoy has four hotels each month.

MIA base. Probably a few years off but I do think EDV will ever have a FL base except for MAYBE, MCO. If the TA gets signed this might be more likely to happen than if it gets voted down but I would hazard a guess, it's a ways off.

Slightly better pass travel at AA than DL. Probably a wash as you will always be in economy anyway. I guess it depends an where, and how often, you want to though.

Flow. I honestly have no desire to fly for AA but it's there. DL I would love to but get in line and a high rejection rate. A flow would have changed that for me personally.

It's almost as bad having too many choices. I flew (rated in the CRJ) but I don't think it really matters, CRJ vs EMB. Yes, I know there are many other variables but for today.

Thanks for any insight.
If you have no desire to fly for AA then Envoy is not for you. All we do is fly for AA!
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