The unspoken LOA
10-04-2017, 08:47 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 640
The unspoken LOA
Friends, Romans, countrymen. Lend me your ears. While it’s not a good idea to negotiate in public forums because it lets management know the least they have to pay you, it is a good idea to discuss how language can and will shaft you. Let me give examples. Please don’t say that you’ll work as a captain for peanuts because it doesn’t help anyone and it also isn’t true. Please do read the loa actual language with a critical eye to how it may and will be used against you. Example:
“No less than 20% of the published reserve lines will be pre-assigned with a 1000 RAP on the first day of each block of reserve. Each of these lines will contain and be guaranteed 11 days off.” Did you guys see the “published” part. That isn’t saying that 20% or more of us will get that as an awarded rsv line. Also she note that it says no less than. Just like how our flow says no less than. Expect the worst because there is nothing in their best interest to give more without further concessions on our part later. Feel free to tear the language down but don’t talk about how much or less we will accept to get it passed.
Btw I do appreciate the hard work alpa has put forward on this I just ask myself one question. “Would I be more likely to bid reserve after this passes” the answer is no. If your not then why vote in the loop holes and help their staffing issues/loose leverage.
“No less than 20% of the published reserve lines will be pre-assigned with a 1000 RAP on the first day of each block of reserve. Each of these lines will contain and be guaranteed 11 days off.” Did you guys see the “published” part. That isn’t saying that 20% or more of us will get that as an awarded rsv line. Also she note that it says no less than. Just like how our flow says no less than. Expect the worst because there is nothing in their best interest to give more without further concessions on our part later. Feel free to tear the language down but don’t talk about how much or less we will accept to get it passed.
Btw I do appreciate the hard work alpa has put forward on this I just ask myself one question. “Would I be more likely to bid reserve after this passes” the answer is no. If your not then why vote in the loop holes and help their staffing issues/loose leverage.
10-04-2017, 08:53 AM
#2
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Joined APC: Jan 2015
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The actual language is a hyperlink called “new contract” that came in the email at ~11:04am a few days ago. Very discrete.
“A Call Me First (CMF) / Call Me Last (CML) System is being created.
You may make your CMF/CML decision on the monthly bid sheet (Options menu within HIB)
You may then change your CMF/CML status prior to the beginning of the month, and again on the 15th day of that month“
We are being asked to vote again on a promise that is sure to have many loop holes. How can I say that? Why wouldn’t the company insist on loopholes after we have already said yes to the language?
“A Call Me First (CMF) / Call Me Last (CML) System is being created.
You may make your CMF/CML decision on the monthly bid sheet (Options menu within HIB)
You may then change your CMF/CML status prior to the beginning of the month, and again on the 15th day of that month“
We are being asked to vote again on a promise that is sure to have many loop holes. How can I say that? Why wouldn’t the company insist on loopholes after we have already said yes to the language?
10-04-2017, 09:04 AM
#3
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I may be wrong but I seem to remember that a ready reserve pilot due to end at 2 couldn’t be given a flight that left at 2:45 unless they were given that flight no later than 1:45. I don’t see anything in new language reflecting the 1:45 limit. Did I miss it. Also I saw this... is this how it’s currently handled because dispatch hates to push departures back and mx is always overly optimistic. Seems like it makes for a very long day.
“
b. If, after being assigned, the flight’s departure is subsequently delayed more than forty-five (45) minutes after the end of a pilot’s Ready Reserve shift, the assignment is still proper.
c. If at the time of an assignment, Scheduling knows that a flight will not depart within forty-five (45) minutes after the end of a pilot’s Ready Reserve shift, the flight cannot be assigned to him.
d. If Scheduling assigns an open trip to a Ready Reserve pilot and the pilot notifies Scheduling that the flight is not going to depart within forty-five (45) minutes after the end of a Ready Reserve shift, Scheduling is obligated to check with Dispatch concerning the actual planned departure time. If Dispatch confirms that the flight will not depart within forty-five (45) minutes after the Ready Reserve shift ends, the flight cannot be assigned to the Ready Reserve.”
“
b. If, after being assigned, the flight’s departure is subsequently delayed more than forty-five (45) minutes after the end of a pilot’s Ready Reserve shift, the assignment is still proper.
c. If at the time of an assignment, Scheduling knows that a flight will not depart within forty-five (45) minutes after the end of a pilot’s Ready Reserve shift, the flight cannot be assigned to him.
d. If Scheduling assigns an open trip to a Ready Reserve pilot and the pilot notifies Scheduling that the flight is not going to depart within forty-five (45) minutes after the end of a Ready Reserve shift, Scheduling is obligated to check with Dispatch concerning the actual planned departure time. If Dispatch confirms that the flight will not depart within forty-five (45) minutes after the Ready Reserve shift ends, the flight cannot be assigned to the Ready Reserve.”
10-04-2017, 09:09 AM
#4
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This isn’t terrible if you live in base and are senior. If you don’t and you want a vps overnight that’s high time then chances are you’ll be sitting at a dallas hotel not getting any perdiem. Good thing for bonus checks. Serious question here....who decides whose trips to take and who deserves them? What’s the formula? Is there any accountability and what if your dating a scheduler? How can I ask for my trips to be taken?
“DISPLACEMENTS AND COMPOSITE LINES FOR LOW TIME PILOTS
A. The Company may displace first officers who are holding a line of time from sequence(s) when such sequence(s) are needed in order to progress a Low Time First Officer towards one thousand (1000) hours of SIC time.
1. TheCompanywillgenerallydisplacelineholdingpilotsin order of seniority, with a bias towards the most beneficial trip sequence for the pilot who requires the time.
2. Anypilotdisplacedunderthisparagraphwillnotbesubjec tto reassignment, however such pilot will be able to pick up Open Time and shall be paid for such time in accordance with Section 3.J of the Pilots’ Basic Agreement and all applicable Letters of Agreement.
3. Displacedflyingwillbeassignedtofirstofficersinthes ame status who need one thousand (1000) hours SIC time.
4. Anypilot*****ceivesflyingunderthisparagraphAwhois required to commute the night before the trip will receive a hotel room upon request. Such hotel room will not be counted toward any Commuter Hotel allotment (if any).”
“DISPLACEMENTS AND COMPOSITE LINES FOR LOW TIME PILOTS
A. The Company may displace first officers who are holding a line of time from sequence(s) when such sequence(s) are needed in order to progress a Low Time First Officer towards one thousand (1000) hours of SIC time.
1. TheCompanywillgenerallydisplacelineholdingpilotsin order of seniority, with a bias towards the most beneficial trip sequence for the pilot who requires the time.
2. Anypilotdisplacedunderthisparagraphwillnotbesubjec tto reassignment, however such pilot will be able to pick up Open Time and shall be paid for such time in accordance with Section 3.J of the Pilots’ Basic Agreement and all applicable Letters of Agreement.
3. Displacedflyingwillbeassignedtofirstofficersinthes ame status who need one thousand (1000) hours SIC time.
4. Anypilot*****ceivesflyingunderthisparagraphAwhois required to commute the night before the trip will receive a hotel room upon request. Such hotel room will not be counted toward any Commuter Hotel allotment (if any).”
10-04-2017, 09:16 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Jan 2015
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“Onereservelinewillcontainblocksofreservedayssucht hatnoblock of reserve days is built with more than 4 consecutive days of reserve duty.
4. Inlargerstatuses,wherethereareatleastfourteenreser velines,one reserve line will be built such that the line contains a maximum of one block of five (5) consecutive days of reserve duty.”
With regards to that whole being released at 2 pm thing. I’m no rsv line building expert but if you bid a conflict then you don’t get released at 2pm right? Because that wasn’t how the line was built. How many other trips could you possibly get released early? 3 or 4 at most for the rest of the month. On the call last night it was mentioned scheduling could just extend you. That was what I heard. Am I wrong? Could scheduling just make all the reserve lines 4 on 2 off? They could still junior man on day 5(day off) and keep you legal in low staffing situations. They also wouldn’t be obligated to get you done by 2 pm because it’s a junior man. Not scheduled
4. Inlargerstatuses,wherethereareatleastfourteenreser velines,one reserve line will be built such that the line contains a maximum of one block of five (5) consecutive days of reserve duty.”
With regards to that whole being released at 2 pm thing. I’m no rsv line building expert but if you bid a conflict then you don’t get released at 2pm right? Because that wasn’t how the line was built. How many other trips could you possibly get released early? 3 or 4 at most for the rest of the month. On the call last night it was mentioned scheduling could just extend you. That was what I heard. Am I wrong? Could scheduling just make all the reserve lines 4 on 2 off? They could still junior man on day 5(day off) and keep you legal in low staffing situations. They also wouldn’t be obligated to get you done by 2 pm because it’s a junior man. Not scheduled
10-04-2017, 09:20 AM
#6
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I’m not sure how this currently reads so I hope you guys will clarify. “Section 3.N.3.a shall be changed to read as follows: 3. Homestudy training.
a. In the event a Homestudy training module(s) is incorporated into pilot training requirements, the pilot will be credited fifty percent (50%) of the FAA assigned value of the training module above guarantee.” It sounds like if it takes 20 hours to actually do something but the gas says it’s only worth 10 hours then we get paid 5 hours on top of guarantee. Not half of what it actually takes us.
a. In the event a Homestudy training module(s) is incorporated into pilot training requirements, the pilot will be credited fifty percent (50%) of the FAA assigned value of the training module above guarantee.” It sounds like if it takes 20 hours to actually do something but the gas says it’s only worth 10 hours then we get paid 5 hours on top of guarantee. Not half of what it actually takes us.
10-04-2017, 09:27 AM
#7
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Posts: 640
This is almost the most rediculous part.
“GOLDEN PVDs
The Parties agree that, effective January 1,2018, each pilot will have access to up to two (2) Golden Personal Vacation Days (which are included in the total of six (6) Personal Vacation Days per year). Such Golden PVDs will have a guaranteed allocation, and must be scheduled in advance. The details concerning the allocation, staffing requirement, and process applicable to these days will be determined in a Letter of Understanding that will be executed by the Parties no less than 30 days prior to the effective date.”
The staffing requirements and process will be determined later. Sounds like the way the return days on the ltfo settlement were handled. So one of the “best parts” of this section 12 is yet to be agreed on. Anyone that was against Nancy pelosi saying we need to pass Obama care before we can read it must be throwing up right now.
How will drop requests be handled. Will golden pvds effect drop staffing requirements. Why not call it a golden drop and not have it come out of vacation?
“GOLDEN PVDs
The Parties agree that, effective January 1,2018, each pilot will have access to up to two (2) Golden Personal Vacation Days (which are included in the total of six (6) Personal Vacation Days per year). Such Golden PVDs will have a guaranteed allocation, and must be scheduled in advance. The details concerning the allocation, staffing requirement, and process applicable to these days will be determined in a Letter of Understanding that will be executed by the Parties no less than 30 days prior to the effective date.”
The staffing requirements and process will be determined later. Sounds like the way the return days on the ltfo settlement were handled. So one of the “best parts” of this section 12 is yet to be agreed on. Anyone that was against Nancy pelosi saying we need to pass Obama care before we can read it must be throwing up right now.
How will drop requests be handled. Will golden pvds effect drop staffing requirements. Why not call it a golden drop and not have it come out of vacation?
10-04-2017, 09:49 AM
#8
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Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 640
Is this current language? Sounds like crew scheduling can just decide to hold an open trip for a ready reserve that isn’t coming on duty till much later. What if I want to pick it up as open time and the rr guy is low time that wants to upgrade?
On that thought could I tell crew scheduling that as a low time guy I want to upgrade ASAP and get 100+ hour credited lines. Trip trade into better stuff, soak up perdiem like a mother and then not put in for the first vacancy. Also would those guys be obligated to take 145 lga or could they wait for 175?
On that thought could I tell crew scheduling that as a low time guy I want to upgrade ASAP and get 100+ hour credited lines. Trip trade into better stuff, soak up perdiem like a mother and then not put in for the first vacancy. Also would those guys be obligated to take 145 lga or could they wait for 175?
10-04-2017, 12:51 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Originally Posted by Bigpimppilot
Friends, Romans, countrymen. Lend me your ears. While it’s not a good idea to negotiate in public forums because it lets management know the least they have to pay you, it is a good idea to discuss how language can and will shaft you. Let me give examples. Please don’t say that you’ll work as a captain for peanuts because it doesn’t help anyone and it also isn’t true. Please do read the loa actual language with a critical eye to how it may and will be used against you. Example:
“No less than 20% of the published reserve lines will be pre-assigned with a 1000 RAP on the first day of each block of reserve. Each of these lines will contain and be guaranteed 11 days off.” Did you guys see the “published” part. That isn’t saying that 20% or more of us will get that as an awarded rsv line. Also she note that it says no less than. Just like how our flow says no less than. Expect the worst because there is nothing in their best interest to give more without further concessions on our part later. Feel free to tear the language down but don’t talk about how much or less we will accept to get it passed.
Btw I do appreciate the hard work alpa has put forward on this I just ask myself one question. “Would I be more likely to bid reserve after this passes” the answer is no. If your not then why vote in the loop holes and help their staffing issues/loose leverage.
“No less than 20% of the published reserve lines will be pre-assigned with a 1000 RAP on the first day of each block of reserve. Each of these lines will contain and be guaranteed 11 days off.” Did you guys see the “published” part. That isn’t saying that 20% or more of us will get that as an awarded rsv line. Also she note that it says no less than. Just like how our flow says no less than. Expect the worst because there is nothing in their best interest to give more without further concessions on our part later. Feel free to tear the language down but don’t talk about how much or less we will accept to get it passed.
Btw I do appreciate the hard work alpa has put forward on this I just ask myself one question. “Would I be more likely to bid reserve after this passes” the answer is no. If your not then why vote in the loop holes and help their staffing issues/loose leverage.
We already have language stating published lines would be awarded proportionally. 10 lines and 67 reserve pilots. Each reserve line will have 6 or 7 pilots per line.
20% or slightly more reserve pilots will have a RAP 2.
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