freakwentflyin

Is Envoy counting 135 PIC time with <10 seats?

I've heard very mixed info on this.

Some are saying 1,000 hours of 135.243 jet time counts, some are saying only 10+ seats, some have said the wording is turboJET, not turbofan. Anyone have a concrete answer? I'm interested in the new $45k PIC bonus program they are recently offering, but there seems to be a grey area of if I qualify (currently an 8 seat midsize 135 captain).

While I'm in here, if I do indeed qualify, how long would it be in average before I can hold reserve or line at DFW? ORD is my second choice, but I understand that I'd likely get LGA for at least some time and would stay Junior captain for quite some time as F.O.'s who are upgrading would hold seniority over me.

Guys/gals, I apologize if I don't know all the 121 lingo. It's much more cut and dry 135. Any quality insight would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

bigtime209

Regardless of what kind of 135 time counts for the upgrade requirement, the $45k is only for prior 121 guys.

Sheg0theD

They won’t consider previous 135. Last I heard was 700 121 and clean record.

To answer your other question..

121.436 will tell you the different times that qualify.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/135.243#a_1


This is a FAR not a company specific requirement.



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highfarfast

I believe Envoy’s HVA bonus is for prior 121 only. However, I do think your prior 135 would count for upgrade purposes (without going and looking up the reg). If you came to Envoy, expect to be in LGA on reserve for a very long time. Not because you couldn’t hold DFW as an FO on a near vacancy bid, but because you’ll be forced to upgrade on a near displacement bid. I’ve been hear over a year and would be quite senior to you when looking at all the hires between when I was hired and now and I can’t hold DFW CA right now myself.

Edit: I’m curious as to what someone like you expect to gain by coming to Envoy right now.

SactisbonesBJ

It does not count toward upgrade

freakwentflyin

Thank you for the feedback (and everyone else who gave feedback too). That was quality info and sorta what I'm starting to figure out is that a forced upgrade really isn't beneficial for me if I'm not interested in LGA.

As far as what I expect to gain, here's where I stand. I have about 4200TT, 3000 PIC, 1000 Jet PIC, 2900 Multi. I've had my apps in at the 4 big guys (AAL, Delta, UAL, SWA) and I'm not getting any bites. I'm going to start going to more recruitment events soon. In the meantime I'm trying to find specific airlines that can gain me 121 experience. I currently work in the midwest and reside reasonable driving distance to ORD, but my wife is going to be getting a promotion/transfer to Austin, TX. My goal is to find an airline that I can hold reserve/line in east Texas (DFW, HOU). In other words, an easy commute. I have places to crash in both those cities for free if I am short call reserve. AKA, if I'm going to take a significant pay cut, I don't want to add living expenses to the bill. I do, however value QOL almost over pay so the long commuting not getting paid is a detractor for me if it's long term. I certainly don't mind paying my dues if I must, but I'm just trying to be well informed.

My ultimate goal has always been AAL as I'm from Charlotte and will eventually want to move back there (I'd like to do that within a decade). I've considered PSA too, but it's almost the same deal as Envoy it seams, or close enough to it being another wholly owned.

Spirit also seems to be a potential fit too with holding DFW, but they are in the middle of their TA negotiations too. I'd like to see how that pans out.

FYI, my timeframe for making the jump to 121 is this summer. I'm just trying to come up with the best plan of action I should take.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm new to APC and it's chock full of great info, good and bad!

freakwentflyin

Yeah, I've read 121.436 and deduced that my 135.243 time should count, but I've been told some companies seem to count it, and some don't. It appears from what others have answered that the $45k thing is not something I qualify for, so I'd be getting the $22k, but no 2nd year bonus if they do indeed count my 135 PIC time and force my upgrade. From how it sounds, it appears I wouldn't make much more being a PIC right away come second year.

Thanks for your reply

freakwentflyin

do you have specific info on why it doesn't? This is where I'm confused because I will get one like you that says it doesn't, and one or two that says it does. And then another who interprets the FAR's that it should, but not clearly defined. Any concrete info would be helpful!

Thanks for replying

inky13

You're specifically asking about this:
The rule is a list:
1. Turbojet Airplane; or
2. An airplane having a passenger-seat configuration, excluding each crewmember seat, of 10 seats or more; or
3. A multiengine airplane in a commuter operation as defined in part 119....

Therefore, Turbojet Airplane PIC time counts. To me, splitting hairs from turboJET versus turboFAN is ridiculous with regards to the regs as I don't think the intent was to differentiate (or perhaps the rule was written when turboFANs weren't around yet...).

That said, Envoy will not interpret the reg for you. They will leave it up to your professional judgement of whether your time meets that requirement, much like how the FAA views your times on an 8710.

Hope that helps.

BTW, if you can get in with Spirit, even with the TA going down right now, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

tm602

So with 650 turboprop PIC all 121 and over 1000 SIC 121 what is a realistic time to upgrade?