ebelizard

I've been reading a lot on these forums of current Envoy pilots who are extremely disgruntled. I'm currently about to start time building at Coast next week, and was looking forward to the airlines coming from my UH-60L background.

It seems as though no one has anything good to say about the company; scheduling, flight time, pay, etc. I guess I'm looking for a shred of hope that the company isn't as terrible as some make it seem.

flysooner9

They have flow!!!!! You’ll be an AA pilot as soon as your hired!

Whiskey4

Airline pilots are notorious for complaining about...well...everything. Examples I’ve heard:

Overnight in a nice hotel on the beach? “There aren’t enough restaurant choices nearby!!!”

777 first officer? “They expected me to work 9 DAYS last month. I usually only work 8 days per month. WTF!!!”

Slow upgrade? “This is bulls%*$”
Quick upgrade? “This is bulls%*$”

Envoy is fine as regional airlines go. 90% of the people I fly with indicate that life is good. There are the usual 10% (most of whom post on forums) who seem to hate their life. Many of these have unrealistic expectations of being an airline pilot. I’ve literally flown with guys who complain about having to be away from home every week. What exactly were they thinking this job is all about?? Captains who complain seem to think it’s part of their job description... If they acknowledge that they actually have a pretty chill job (as jobs go) then somehow that makes them weak.

I especially love pilots who complain about being on standby. You literally get paid to sit on your backside. Personally, standby was 1000% better than jobs I’ve had doing manual labor, retail, being a CFI (depending on the student). On standby I was paid to sleep, read the WSJ, monitor my investments, get some exercise, develop and manage a side hustle, binge watch a few good tv series, and do a few trips. Is RAP better if living in base? Sure. But seriously...pilots complain about everything.

itsmytime

Great post @whisky. Your point about upgrades is hilarious. Guys used to want to upgrade as soon as possible. Now you can, and everyone complains! LOL!

ORDinary

In reality some people complained about slow upgrades, and they are very happy that upgrade times have plummeted. Other people never complained about the slow upgrade, preferred to stay FO, and are not happy about being forced into a commute and bad schedules.

highfarfast

Well, yeah, most people want to upgrade as soon as possible but on their terms, ei in their base of choice on their equipment of choice. What we're seeing is forced upgrades to other bases and other equipment. Hence the complaining.

LowValuAviator

A year or two ago I thought Envoy was a no-brainer. Straight into a 175 in Dallas @ 23, really competitive pay w/ the bonuses, recruitment was advertising a 5-6 year flow. I think it is much more of a mixed bag now, but I still hear from guys regularly who went other places saying "I wish I'd gone to Envoy," and I've noticed you don't see many people naming other airlines as missed opportunities here.

I can understand why someone would be disgruntled after getting displaced to LGA. Especially if you were living in your base, now you have a situation where you have to switch to the commuter lifestyle or try affording NY on a regional salary, while running into justifiably smug Endeavor captains every time you go to work.

lakehouse

The moral is low. Aag approved endv pay rates and envoy management said we don't need that. We have people getting the base they live in as an fo then being displaced to captain and endless standby halfway across the country. This company is relentless when it comes to making people commute even though they live in an AA hub.

Now flow is being metered illegally and the flow time is close to a decade. Buyers remorse is widespread.

Chicken Little

How is flow being metered illegally?

Whiskey4

No one other than the AAG board and management can prove if pay rates were approved. Until proof exists you’re just looking for an excuse to get angry.

The displacement to Captain issue came with the contract. Don’t like your contract? Well, perhaps there is some entity that negotiated on your behalf that needs to be made aware of your displeasure.

The company is not metering “illegally”. The union never bothered to define the term “operational necessity”. Want to be ****ed? Be ****ed at the union legal folks who time and time again provide us with such useless language or with undefined terminology. Most contracts I’ve ever negotiated spent a massive amount of effort in section one: Definitions.

Do you think the sharpest legal minds coming out of law school, or the legal experts who have spent years building solid reputations get jobs at ALPA?? Answer...no. You get what you pay for.

Operational necessity at this point is likely being defined by promises made to AAG regarding the amount of hulls we can operate. Based on the FO vs. Captain imbalance we likely have going on right now (as evidenced by the new bonuses) it is an operational necessity to conserve captains in order to fulfill the fleet plan promised to AAG. Therefore, nothing “illegal” going on.

And, don’t get me wrong, the metering is damaging my personal career earnings. It is literally taking money off the table for my family, kids college, retirement, etc. Frustrrated? Sure. However, being ****ed based on a false premise doesn’t do any good. Try convincing our MEC to fire our pathetic lawyers and get someone who can actually play the game.