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-   -   "Captain Add List" - WTF? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/112690-captain-add-list-wtf.html)

Inop2 04-07-2018 09:25 AM


Originally Posted by E175 Driver (Post 2566893)
You guys are too paranoid. How many planes have ran out of gas?

Dust off your resume my friend and submit it to corporate. You are management material! Juuuust jokin.

ORDinary 04-07-2018 11:47 AM


Originally Posted by E175 Driver (Post 2566893)
You guys are too paranoid. How many planes have ran out of gas?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/your-online-secrets/201409/internet-trolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists

griff312 04-07-2018 12:28 PM


Originally Posted by E175 Driver (Post 2566893)
You guys are too paranoid. How many planes have ran out of gas?

I'm betting yours will be the first.

Inop2 04-07-2018 03:12 PM


Originally Posted by ORDinary (Post 2566997)
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/your-online-secrets/201409/internet-trolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists

Useful read... just discovered my wife is a psychopath... that explains a lot.

EmbaeDriver 04-07-2018 07:13 PM


Originally Posted by E175 Driver (Post 2566893)
You guys are too paranoid. How many planes have ran out of gas?

True, but we never know what can happen

Wink 04-07-2018 09:12 PM


Originally Posted by highflyer1980 (Post 2565554)
Captains.... Declare min fuel. When looking at the fuel projection on the FMS and it’s giving you the willies, declare min fuel! Leave a paper trail, with mounds of evidence will give us and dispatchers more ammunition fighting corporate policies. Don’t wait until it’s too late and you have an emergency or divert. The pipeline is simple to do, very little details needed.

I do not condone the company’s actions though. This is wrong on so many levels. Anyone heard of PSA or PDT having this issue?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Current PDT CA here. No. Never even heard of someone getting any sort of pushback from a dispatcher about it, or experienced it myself. When I've asked for more fuel in the past, we just amended the release and called the fueler.... that was it....

Weekendwarrior2 04-07-2018 11:20 PM


Originally Posted by Wink (Post 2567362)
Current PDT CA here. No. Never even heard of someone getting any sort of pushback from a dispatcher about it, or experienced it myself. When I've asked for more fuel in the past, we just amended the release and called the fueler.... that was it....

Also, for those who don't know yet. If you are in CCI go to more -->FOS Outage-->and then from there you can type in DEP/DEST for any AA/ENY flight in the system. This is just a quick sampling that I did, but almost EVERY mainline flight has some sort of BUFR fuel added by dispatch and way more arrival fuel. Check mainlines arrival fuel compared to ours. Just because they are mainline and we're Envoy doesn't mean we should be arriving with less fuel than them.

Example: RDU-DFW
ENY 3355 Today (4/8) , Planned Arrival Fuel 01/10 mins (1713 Departure)
**Release Notes: Filed FL280 to avoid forecast upper turb.
AAL 2753 Today (4/8), Planned Arrival Fuel 02/02 mins (1545 Departure)
**Release Notes: Add fuel for possible taxi out delays/ ride improvements. Flight plan altitude capped due to turb.

Notice the difference? Both dispatchers noted the enroute upper level turbulence. Only one added additional fuel for ride improvements. The envoy release had no buffer fuel or anything. Just a casual hey, we filed you lower but you still have minimal arrival fuel. If you are working a flight that also has a mainline flight, start comparing the releases. Just because we are flying a smaller plane doesn't mean we should be arriving with an hours less fuel than mainline. If I was flying my family on a flight I sure as sh**t wouldn't want that.

Frip 04-08-2018 03:05 AM


Originally Posted by E175 Driver (Post 2566893)
You guys are too paranoid. How many planes have ran out of gas?

That is not the point, nor even remotely the reason for carrying adequate fuel or Captains adding fuel.

If you really don't get that, please go find a desk to fly somewhere, or a job writing stupid shyt that actual pilots can ignore.

Pedro4President 04-08-2018 03:40 AM


Originally Posted by Frip (Post 2567419)
That is not the point, nor even remotely the reason for carrying adequate fuel or Captains adding fuel.

If you really don't get that, please go find a desk to fly somewhere, or a job writing stupid shyt that actual pilots can ignore.

Next time, if you read something that sounds too stupid to be serious, the it probably is someone just kidding around. He doesn't mean or believe anything he actually writes. It's taking up a persona that hyper stereotypes a millennial.

Frip 04-08-2018 04:06 AM

It's 2018, they make all these cool emoji-thingies to indicate sarcasm, humor, wonder, etc...

In the dark ages mb posters who desired to be understood would sometimes indicate those sort of things that might easily be misconstrued in a print only format by actually typing out the words, thusly... {sarcasm alert...} or such.

E175 Driver 04-08-2018 04:46 AM


Originally Posted by griff312 (Post 2567028)
I'm betting yours will be the first.

That will be up to me to decide when I get LCE on this bid buddy.:rolleyes:

AeroEnvoy 04-08-2018 01:55 PM


Originally Posted by Pedro4President (Post 2567426)
Next time, if you read something that sounds too stupid to be serious, the it probably is someone just kidding around. He doesn't mean or believe anything he actually writes. It's taking up a persona that hyper stereotypes a millennial.

You're probably right. Come to think about it, he only makes random comments but never actually argues with anyone about the statement he made which means he can't actually believe it otherwise he'd stand up for it. It's like hardlemonade, there's no way he's actually bob Ross. Bob Ross' a painter not a pilot.:D

LowValueAviator 04-10-2018 08:46 AM


Originally Posted by E175 Driver (Post 2566893)
You guys are too paranoid. How many planes have ran out of gas?

None. How many diverted? How many landed with amber fuel qty? Is there checklists in our AOM Vol 1's/QRHs for amber fuel?

How accurate is dispatch flight planning? What altitudes do you actually cross Beree/Seever/Vktry at? What altitude does the release say?

How much taxi fuel do you really use? Deicing today? Landing north or south today? Will you accept that flight plan all the way down the 1400 mile front or deviate?

Better get a handle on this stuff quick, "Captain". Smarter people have flamed out their careers on less stuff than this.

HardLemonade 04-10-2018 09:03 AM

Does anyone know the difference between razor burn and herpes? Asking for a friend...

Seaplane 04-10-2018 09:17 AM


Originally Posted by HardLemonade (Post 2569087)
Does anyone know the difference between razor burn and herpes? Asking for a friend...

If you haven’t shaved in a month then it’s herpes

EmbaeDriver 04-10-2018 10:55 AM


Originally Posted by LowValueAviator (Post 2569076)
None. How many diverted? How many landed with amber fuel qty? Is there checklists in our AOM Vol 1's/QRHs for amber fuel?

How accurate is dispatch flight planning? What altitudes do you actually cross Beree/Seever/Vktry at? What altitude does the release say?

So true
How much taxi fuel do you really use? Deicing today? Landing north or south today? Will you accept that flight plan all the way down the 1400 mile front or deviate?

Better get a handle on this stuff quick, "Captain". Smarter people have flamed out their careers on less stuff than this.

This is so true

ViewSonic 04-16-2018 09:32 AM

RW Letter
 
Fuel Planning
April 5th, 2018
RE: Fuel Planning

I want to apologize on behalf of the entire Flight Operations Management Team. Recently a message went out from one of our Fleet Managers that had a threatening tone with regards to the use of CAPT ADD. This Manager was immediately reprimanded, because this is not in line with the guiding principles of our company and contrary to our culture of respect where Envoy’s goal is to maintain a workplace free from any attempt to intimidate or coerce another person.

For all of us at Envoy, our first – and top – priority is the safety of our co-workers and customers.

The Captain and Dispatcher are jointly responsible for all aspects of pre-flight planning, including fuel requirements. It is company policy to dispatch with the minimum quantity of fuel necessary after considering of safety, regulations, customer service and operating economics. However, if the judgement and experience of the Captain and Dispatcher indicate a need for more fuel, it is vital both parties clearly agree and understand the reasons why.

It is important that each of us, Captain and Dispatcher, understand the assumptions by which our flight plans are built to effectively execute the mission above. We accomplish that through training. To that end, Flight Operations Management will be working in conjunction with representatives from ALPA to collaborate on improvements to our fuel training curriculum.



Respectfully,



Ric

Captain Richard Wilson

Vice President Flight Operations

EmbaeDriver 04-16-2018 09:33 AM

^^^^^ that’s old

Jamesthunder 04-16-2018 04:50 PM

Heard the person in question was fired.

Pedro4President 04-16-2018 05:22 PM


Originally Posted by Jamesthunder (Post 2573678)
Heard the person in question was fired.

Definitely didn't want that to happen.

Ijustlikeflying 04-16-2018 05:23 PM


Originally Posted by Jamesthunder (Post 2573678)
Heard the person in question was fired.

As they should be...

highfarfast 04-16-2018 05:35 PM


Originally Posted by Ijustlikeflying (Post 2573694)
As they should be...

The one(s) who made that person feel like those policies were acceptable should be fired. I'm not sure the person that sent the HI6 should have been the one fired. They just exposed a culture problem with management policies.

OldBiff 04-16-2018 05:45 PM


Originally Posted by highfarfast (Post 2573703)
The one(s) who made that person feel like those policies were acceptable should be fired. I'm not sure the person that sent the HI6 should have been the one fired. They just exposed a culture problem with management policies.

Speaking of which anyone catch 60 minutes about Allegiant? Seems like poor management culture is catchy.

FullThrust 04-16-2018 05:49 PM


Originally Posted by highfarfast (Post 2573703)
The one(s) who made that person feel like those policies were acceptable should be fired. I'm not sure the person that sent the HI6 should have been the one fired. They just exposed a culture problem with management policies.

Highly doubt it was higher up than the fleet manager. Otherwise why would only one fleet manager send it to one fleet instead of all fleets? I dunno, maybe I am being too optimistic but I hope it was an isolated case with him.

highfarfast 04-16-2018 06:09 PM


Originally Posted by FullThrust (Post 2573708)
Highly doubt it was higher up than the fleet manager. Otherwise why would only one fleet manager send it to one fleet instead of all fleets? I dunno, maybe I am being too optimistic but I hope it was an isolated case with him.

That HI6 didn't read to me like he was the one that came up with the policies. He was just the one dumb enough to not realize how the rest of us would react to such policies. Maybe I'm wrong, just the way it sounded to me.

bigtime209 04-16-2018 06:27 PM


Originally Posted by Jamesthunder (Post 2573678)
Heard the person in question was fired.

He was dismissed from his mgmt position, but not fired from the airline.

dvtpilot 04-16-2018 06:28 PM


Originally Posted by FullThrust (Post 2573708)
Highly doubt it was higher up than the fleet manager. Otherwise why would only one fleet manager send it to one fleet instead of all fleets? I dunno, maybe I am being too optimistic but I hope it was an isolated case with him.

Agree. Either that was the one fleet manager that lacked the stones to carry managements water or it was a personal crusade. Either way, poor form and no way to gain the respect of others.

I’m pretty laid back but when it comes to adding gas,( if you want it)either it’s in the wings or we don’t push.

Pedro4President 04-17-2018 05:08 AM


Originally Posted by bigtime209 (Post 2573743)
He was dismissed from his mgmt position, but not fired from the airline.

Good. I think that is an appropriate step. If you are dumb enough not to know to send an email out like that, then you shouldn't be in management.

Well, I bet it will be a while before he ask for CA add.

Pedro4President 04-17-2018 05:13 AM


Originally Posted by highfarfast (Post 2573724)
That HI6 didn't read to me like he was the one that came up with the policies. He was just the one dumb enough to not realize how the rest of us would react to such policies. Maybe I'm wrong, just the way it sounded to me.

I agree. The company CA add list is a strong indicator that this conversation has taken place before at the management level. Pretty sure a phone call from the CP is all that the company is willing to do for the CA add list.

Smutter 04-17-2018 05:14 AM


Originally Posted by highfarfast (Post 2573703)
The one(s) who made that person feel like those policies were acceptable should be fired. I'm not sure the person that sent the HI6 should have been the one fired. They just exposed a culture problem with management policies.

Ask any fo who has flown with him, he is a nightmare.

f16jetmech 04-17-2018 05:55 AM


Originally Posted by Pedro4President (Post 2573693)
Definitely didn't want that to happen.

Probably what needed to happen to keep the FAA off their case.

Pedro4President 04-17-2018 06:15 AM


Originally Posted by f16jetmech (Post 2573969)
Probably what needed to happen to keep the FAA off their case.

Agreed.

I think he should be removed from his current position but still be employed as a CA to fly the line.

Gooselives 04-17-2018 07:05 AM


Originally Posted by Pedro4President (Post 2573980)
Agreed.

I think he should be removed from his current position but still be employed as a CA to fly the line.

But what happens when he needs CA add!

pitchattitude 04-17-2018 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by Gooselives (Post 2574008)
But what happens when he needs CA add!

He certainly better use it!

TCASTESTOK 05-01-2018 09:08 PM

Im guessing they determined who to add to the list by auditing flight releases and seeing which flights requested CA add fuel.

SullyJR 05-01-2018 10:32 PM


Originally Posted by TCASTESTOK (Post 2584447)
Im guessing they determined who to add to the list by auditing flight releases and seeing which flights requested CA add fuel.

Dispatchers have a RF form they send when captains add fuel that goes to the CPO. I don’t remember the name of the specific RF but it’s been posted here before.

TCASTESTOK 05-02-2018 11:04 AM


Originally Posted by SullyJR (Post 2584462)
Dispatchers have a RF form they send when captains add fuel that goes to the CPO. I don’t remember the name of the specific RF but it’s been posted here before.

I know that some flight planning software has a specific CA ADD FUEL line where you put in how much fuel the CA wants and it just adds that number to the rest of the fuel on the plan. Might be a reason box too to explain why. Some programs also auto append a message to the flight release under the remarks section such as

REMARKS
=============
CA REQUESTED 1000 (OR 10.0 DEPENDING ON PROGRAM) OF CA ADD FUEL DUE TO (INSERT REASON SUCH AS WX,ATC, ETC ETC)
another way it could appear is
ADDED XXX POUNDS OF FUEL AT CAPTAIN REQUEST DUE TO (REASON)

ive never heard of a actual form being sent to the CP for additional fuel, usually they would just pull random audits of OFPs.

LowValueAviator 05-02-2018 03:46 PM

I had a dispatcher in my jumpseat. I asked and they confirmed that dispatch has to report it to the chief pilot every time a captain adds fuel.

TCASTESTOK 05-02-2018 05:48 PM


Originally Posted by LowValueAviator (Post 2585013)
I had a dispatcher in my jumpseat. I asked and they confirmed that dispatch has to report it to the chief pilot every time a captain adds fuel.

Im surprised it isnt just automatically sent to the CP when the flight gets released.

Skip0927 05-02-2018 06:40 PM


Originally Posted by TCASTESTOK (Post 2585098)
Im surprised it isnt just automatically sent to the CP when the flight gets released.

That would make it to easy for the FEDs to go after. Auto notification as opposed to a little more labor intesive way makes it less of a red flag to the FEDs...my $.02


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