So You Want To Fly For Envoy?
08-22-2018, 08:16 PM
#1
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 9
So You Want To Fly For Envoy?
Was it the direct entry captain 45k sign on bonus that led you to Envoy? How about the promised A12 passes to and from work? What about the promised flow to American Airlines? Well step on down buddy come drink the kool aid that we once drank when we signed the dotted line on what was thought to be a very exciting day.. Did that get your attention well look no further I have a load to tell you before you make a dreaded mistake that will leave you moving to the armpit of the United States, Kids/Wife resenting you, pulling second mortgages, and/or divorced. Sounds fun ehh? Now before I get to far let me explain none of that has happened to me personally although close maybe once or twice, but this is just reality of what has, will, and what will continue at that place of employment for many pilots.
Direct Entry Captains-
I will start here.. So I am sure the company dangled a shiny carrot in front of your face with a bonus which immediately made you think of all the cool toys you could buy or whatever you decide to spend it on. Honestly they picked you up in a vulnerable state and used your previous experience to fill a crack in a sinking ship that they created. If your dream is to be on reserve for eternity in LGA/JFK then again step on down buddy! Oh flow you say? Yeah get ready for a dreaded 10 year wait, sure they don’t take in account for attrition blah blah blah. So freaking what its 7-8 years instead of 10 years for your flow. Newsflash they have flow agreements in for the “protected pilot” group what’s that you ask? I don’t know its people hired in a specific time period that you are not in. What’s significant about that is your group that you will be hired in doesn’t really have a great agreement in fact the flow numbers are cut in half once all the protected pilots have flowed.
“I will just sign up get 121 pic time a big bonus and apply to other carriers”. Although this can work for some I’m here to tell you everyone says this, but only 10% of pilots at Envoy have an application in to the Majors. Getting comfortable is one of the worst things someone can do here. Ok next up why would a direct entry person want to come to a place where they aren’t hiring many FO’s anymore? Seniority and a jet engine are things you need in this industry but selling your soul to the devil will only get you one of those at Envoy. One last thing Envoys training could be taught by a chimpanzee because you won’t learn anything you will leave with more unanswered question than what you had going in. So enjoy that while you are learning all new company policies. Oh lied one more thing you actually will learn from some really experienced IOE captains for 50 hours that probably waited 6-12 years to upgrade or 10-12 years to finally get the chance to be called for the flow this year now here you come first day on the job a captain.. you get the point.
Sick Leave-
While sick leave is most widely used for time off in all reality sometimes people get sick so what why is this a big deal? Your first year Envoy will tell you without hesitation be careful about calling out sick. I get the reoccurring sick calls are frowned upon, but let’s say you use one to many sick calls in your first year you get the can or the companies sugar coated “career decision day” This is even if you have the built up sick time bank.
Vacation-
If you are a line holder vacation is actually nice, in short if trips touch your vacation days that you had to bid for may I add then those trips drop off your schedule. So a week’s worth of vacation turns into 3 weeks or whatever. Don’t worry if you are direct entry captain you will have vacation during reserve and it will be a whopping 4-5 days with reserve days on the front side and backside. That’s the usual line holders days off in a row on a case to case basis.
Crew scheduling-
The crew schedulers are actually decent depending on who you talk to.. Ok this will raise some debate! If you are reserve you will get the good ol shafting from time to time and you will realize once you become a line holder that the level of respect they give you is much different. Idk maybe its because you don’t really talk to them anymore.
Swaps & Drops
Did you ever dream of spending half your life and all your money getting a bunch of ratings and experience to have an joe smo guy/gal treat you like you are the lowest pond scum on this earth? If so give swaps & drops a call they will make you feel right at home. Now my theory is they process somewhere around 10k request each month by paper that’s just a guess. Either way I picture that whole department looking like a old decrepit bunch of people before they even hit 40. The most famous message you will ever see out of them is “denied due to staffing limitations” Oh you need off for your wedding? Denied due to staffing limitations. You need off because you want to see your little boy play a his last T-ball game? Guess what yep denied due to staffing limitations! Oh I saw there was 25 people available on reserve that day why can’t I drop that reserve day/trip denied due to freaking staffing limitations. Yep that’s right your home life will suck for the unforeseeable future.
School House-
The training is comparable to… actually nothing I can’t even compare it to anything else its so bad. Studying policies, flows, limitations, profiles, systems is so fast paced, and the ground school is such a joke you might as well drive a 100 miles per hour down the interstate and chunk the steering wheel out the window. That’s the level of hectic that goes on during critical learning phases. Hope you like teaching yourself. The sim training on the other hand is pretty good but they will look at you like you’re stupid when you don’t know your flows stemming from that ground that a 4 year old could have taught. UNSATS are a common occurrence around there.
These are very few of the many problems that are here. We could talk about pay, QOL, Flow, etc all day long. Let me tell you weigh your options out very carefully before you decide to come to Envoy. Corporate BS just like anywhere else just with a twist at that airline. Just know if you decide to go to Envoy still just know you will never win and the company doesn’t care about you like they portray. Go somewhere where you are more appreciated and the pay is better(plus QOL etc). If you are simple cfi Johnny who wants to fly bigger metal to impress his wannabe girlfriends while living in his mommy’s basement or a direct entry guy who is down to his last straw then this place is possibly for you, but if you want to take the smart road start with the majors or go somewhere else with more to offer than a flow that can be taken away at any minute. Sure it’s not all bad but it is a time that you’re making a serious career decision and not something to be handled lightly.
Direct Entry Captains-
I will start here.. So I am sure the company dangled a shiny carrot in front of your face with a bonus which immediately made you think of all the cool toys you could buy or whatever you decide to spend it on. Honestly they picked you up in a vulnerable state and used your previous experience to fill a crack in a sinking ship that they created. If your dream is to be on reserve for eternity in LGA/JFK then again step on down buddy! Oh flow you say? Yeah get ready for a dreaded 10 year wait, sure they don’t take in account for attrition blah blah blah. So freaking what its 7-8 years instead of 10 years for your flow. Newsflash they have flow agreements in for the “protected pilot” group what’s that you ask? I don’t know its people hired in a specific time period that you are not in. What’s significant about that is your group that you will be hired in doesn’t really have a great agreement in fact the flow numbers are cut in half once all the protected pilots have flowed.
“I will just sign up get 121 pic time a big bonus and apply to other carriers”. Although this can work for some I’m here to tell you everyone says this, but only 10% of pilots at Envoy have an application in to the Majors. Getting comfortable is one of the worst things someone can do here. Ok next up why would a direct entry person want to come to a place where they aren’t hiring many FO’s anymore? Seniority and a jet engine are things you need in this industry but selling your soul to the devil will only get you one of those at Envoy. One last thing Envoys training could be taught by a chimpanzee because you won’t learn anything you will leave with more unanswered question than what you had going in. So enjoy that while you are learning all new company policies. Oh lied one more thing you actually will learn from some really experienced IOE captains for 50 hours that probably waited 6-12 years to upgrade or 10-12 years to finally get the chance to be called for the flow this year now here you come first day on the job a captain.. you get the point.
Sick Leave-
While sick leave is most widely used for time off in all reality sometimes people get sick so what why is this a big deal? Your first year Envoy will tell you without hesitation be careful about calling out sick. I get the reoccurring sick calls are frowned upon, but let’s say you use one to many sick calls in your first year you get the can or the companies sugar coated “career decision day” This is even if you have the built up sick time bank.
Vacation-
If you are a line holder vacation is actually nice, in short if trips touch your vacation days that you had to bid for may I add then those trips drop off your schedule. So a week’s worth of vacation turns into 3 weeks or whatever. Don’t worry if you are direct entry captain you will have vacation during reserve and it will be a whopping 4-5 days with reserve days on the front side and backside. That’s the usual line holders days off in a row on a case to case basis.
Crew scheduling-
The crew schedulers are actually decent depending on who you talk to.. Ok this will raise some debate! If you are reserve you will get the good ol shafting from time to time and you will realize once you become a line holder that the level of respect they give you is much different. Idk maybe its because you don’t really talk to them anymore.
Swaps & Drops
Did you ever dream of spending half your life and all your money getting a bunch of ratings and experience to have an joe smo guy/gal treat you like you are the lowest pond scum on this earth? If so give swaps & drops a call they will make you feel right at home. Now my theory is they process somewhere around 10k request each month by paper that’s just a guess. Either way I picture that whole department looking like a old decrepit bunch of people before they even hit 40. The most famous message you will ever see out of them is “denied due to staffing limitations” Oh you need off for your wedding? Denied due to staffing limitations. You need off because you want to see your little boy play a his last T-ball game? Guess what yep denied due to staffing limitations! Oh I saw there was 25 people available on reserve that day why can’t I drop that reserve day/trip denied due to freaking staffing limitations. Yep that’s right your home life will suck for the unforeseeable future.
School House-
The training is comparable to… actually nothing I can’t even compare it to anything else its so bad. Studying policies, flows, limitations, profiles, systems is so fast paced, and the ground school is such a joke you might as well drive a 100 miles per hour down the interstate and chunk the steering wheel out the window. That’s the level of hectic that goes on during critical learning phases. Hope you like teaching yourself. The sim training on the other hand is pretty good but they will look at you like you’re stupid when you don’t know your flows stemming from that ground that a 4 year old could have taught. UNSATS are a common occurrence around there.
These are very few of the many problems that are here. We could talk about pay, QOL, Flow, etc all day long. Let me tell you weigh your options out very carefully before you decide to come to Envoy. Corporate BS just like anywhere else just with a twist at that airline. Just know if you decide to go to Envoy still just know you will never win and the company doesn’t care about you like they portray. Go somewhere where you are more appreciated and the pay is better(plus QOL etc). If you are simple cfi Johnny who wants to fly bigger metal to impress his wannabe girlfriends while living in his mommy’s basement or a direct entry guy who is down to his last straw then this place is possibly for you, but if you want to take the smart road start with the majors or go somewhere else with more to offer than a flow that can be taken away at any minute. Sure it’s not all bad but it is a time that you’re making a serious career decision and not something to be handled lightly.
lol
08-22-2018, 11:45 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
“...if you want to take the smart road start with the majors...”
When I read something like this, the credibility of the rest of the post is next to nil - I was quite unaware that Envoy (DEC or otherwise) & the majors regularly competed for the same pool of pilots......
When I read something like this, the credibility of the rest of the post is next to nil - I was quite unaware that Envoy (DEC or otherwise) & the majors regularly competed for the same pool of pilots......
Originally Posted by Mach1aviator
Was it the direct entry captain 45k sign on bonus that led you to Envoy? How about the promised A12 passes to and from work? What about the promised flow to American Airlines? Well step on down buddy come drink the kool aid that we once drank when we signed the dotted line on what was thought to be a very exciting day.. Did that get your attention well look no further I have a load to tell you before you make a dreaded mistake that will leave you moving to the armpit of the United States, Kids/Wife resenting you, pulling second mortgages, and/or divorced. Sounds fun ehh? Now before I get to far let me explain none of that has happened to me personally although close maybe once or twice, but this is just reality of what has, will, and what will continue at that place of employment for many pilots.
Direct Entry Captains-
I will start here.. So I am sure the company dangled a shiny carrot in front of your face with a bonus which immediately made you think of all the cool toys you could buy or whatever you decide to spend it on. Honestly they picked you up in a vulnerable state and used your previous experience to fill a crack in a sinking ship that they created. If your dream is to be on reserve for eternity in LGA/JFK then again step on down buddy! Oh flow you say? Yeah get ready for a dreaded 10 year wait, sure they don’t take in account for attrition blah blah blah. So freaking what its 7-8 years instead of 10 years for your flow. Newsflash they have flow agreements in for the “protected pilot” group what’s that you ask? I don’t know its people hired in a specific time period that you are not in. What’s significant about that is your group that you will be hired in doesn’t really have a great agreement in fact the flow numbers are cut in half once all the protected pilots have flowed.
“I will just sign up get 121 pic time a big bonus and apply to other carriers”. Although this can work for some I’m here to tell you everyone says this, but only 10% of pilots at Envoy have an application in to the Majors. Getting comfortable is one of the worst things someone can do here. Ok next up why would a direct entry person want to come to a place where they aren’t hiring many FO’s anymore? Seniority and a jet engine are things you need in this industry but selling your soul to the devil will only get you one of those at Envoy. One last thing Envoys training could be taught by a chimpanzee because you won’t learn anything you will leave with more unanswered question than what you had going in. So enjoy that while you are learning all new company policies. Oh lied one more thing you actually will learn from some really experienced IOE captains for 50 hours that probably waited 6-12 years to upgrade or 10-12 years to finally get the chance to be called for the flow this year now here you come first day on the job a captain.. you get the point.
Sick Leave-
While sick leave is most widely used for time off in all reality sometimes people get sick so what why is this a big deal? Your first year Envoy will tell you without hesitation be careful about calling out sick. I get the reoccurring sick calls are frowned upon, but let’s say you use one to many sick calls in your first year you get the can or the companies sugar coated “career decision day” This is even if you have the built up sick time bank.
Vacation-
If you are a line holder vacation is actually nice, in short if trips touch your vacation days that you had to bid for may I add then those trips drop off your schedule. So a week’s worth of vacation turns into 3 weeks or whatever. Don’t worry if you are direct entry captain you will have vacation during reserve and it will be a whopping 4-5 days with reserve days on the front side and backside. That’s the usual line holders days off in a row on a case to case basis.
Crew scheduling-
The crew schedulers are actually decent depending on who you talk to.. Ok this will raise some debate! If you are reserve you will get the good ol shafting from time to time and you will realize once you become a line holder that the level of respect they give you is much different. Idk maybe its because you don’t really talk to them anymore.
Swaps & Drops
Did you ever dream of spending half your life and all your money getting a bunch of ratings and experience to have an joe smo guy/gal treat you like you are the lowest pond scum on this earth? If so give swaps & drops a call they will make you feel right at home. Now my theory is they process somewhere around 10k request each month by paper that’s just a guess. Either way I picture that whole department looking like a old decrepit bunch of people before they even hit 40. The most famous message you will ever see out of them is “denied due to staffing limitations” Oh you need off for your wedding? Denied due to staffing limitations. You need off because you want to see your little boy play a his last T-ball game? Guess what yep denied due to staffing limitations! Oh I saw there was 25 people available on reserve that day why can’t I drop that reserve day/trip denied due to freaking staffing limitations. Yep that’s right your home life will suck for the unforeseeable future.
School House-
The training is comparable to… actually nothing I can’t even compare it to anything else its so bad. Studying policies, flows, limitations, profiles, systems is so fast paced, and the ground school is such a joke you might as well drive a 100 miles per hour down the interstate and chunk the steering wheel out the window. That’s the level of hectic that goes on during critical learning phases. Hope you like teaching yourself. The sim training on the other hand is pretty good but they will look at you like you’re stupid when you don’t know your flows stemming from that ground that a 4 year old could have taught. UNSATS are a common occurrence around there.
These are very few of the many problems that are here. We could talk about pay, QOL, Flow, etc all day long. Let me tell you weigh your options out very carefully before you decide to come to Envoy. Corporate BS just like anywhere else just with a twist at that airline. Just know if you decide to go to Envoy still just know you will never win and the company doesn’t care about you like they portray. Go somewhere where you are more appreciated and the pay is better(plus QOL etc). If you are simple cfi Johnny who wants to fly bigger metal to impress his wannabe girlfriends while living in his mommy’s basement or a direct entry guy who is down to his last straw then this place is possibly for you, but if you want to take the smart road start with the majors or go somewhere else with more to offer than a flow that can be taken away at any minute. Sure it’s not all bad but it is a time that you’re making a serious career decision and not something to be handled lightly.
Direct Entry Captains-
I will start here.. So I am sure the company dangled a shiny carrot in front of your face with a bonus which immediately made you think of all the cool toys you could buy or whatever you decide to spend it on. Honestly they picked you up in a vulnerable state and used your previous experience to fill a crack in a sinking ship that they created. If your dream is to be on reserve for eternity in LGA/JFK then again step on down buddy! Oh flow you say? Yeah get ready for a dreaded 10 year wait, sure they don’t take in account for attrition blah blah blah. So freaking what its 7-8 years instead of 10 years for your flow. Newsflash they have flow agreements in for the “protected pilot” group what’s that you ask? I don’t know its people hired in a specific time period that you are not in. What’s significant about that is your group that you will be hired in doesn’t really have a great agreement in fact the flow numbers are cut in half once all the protected pilots have flowed.
“I will just sign up get 121 pic time a big bonus and apply to other carriers”. Although this can work for some I’m here to tell you everyone says this, but only 10% of pilots at Envoy have an application in to the Majors. Getting comfortable is one of the worst things someone can do here. Ok next up why would a direct entry person want to come to a place where they aren’t hiring many FO’s anymore? Seniority and a jet engine are things you need in this industry but selling your soul to the devil will only get you one of those at Envoy. One last thing Envoys training could be taught by a chimpanzee because you won’t learn anything you will leave with more unanswered question than what you had going in. So enjoy that while you are learning all new company policies. Oh lied one more thing you actually will learn from some really experienced IOE captains for 50 hours that probably waited 6-12 years to upgrade or 10-12 years to finally get the chance to be called for the flow this year now here you come first day on the job a captain.. you get the point.
Sick Leave-
While sick leave is most widely used for time off in all reality sometimes people get sick so what why is this a big deal? Your first year Envoy will tell you without hesitation be careful about calling out sick. I get the reoccurring sick calls are frowned upon, but let’s say you use one to many sick calls in your first year you get the can or the companies sugar coated “career decision day” This is even if you have the built up sick time bank.
Vacation-
If you are a line holder vacation is actually nice, in short if trips touch your vacation days that you had to bid for may I add then those trips drop off your schedule. So a week’s worth of vacation turns into 3 weeks or whatever. Don’t worry if you are direct entry captain you will have vacation during reserve and it will be a whopping 4-5 days with reserve days on the front side and backside. That’s the usual line holders days off in a row on a case to case basis.
Crew scheduling-
The crew schedulers are actually decent depending on who you talk to.. Ok this will raise some debate! If you are reserve you will get the good ol shafting from time to time and you will realize once you become a line holder that the level of respect they give you is much different. Idk maybe its because you don’t really talk to them anymore.
Swaps & Drops
Did you ever dream of spending half your life and all your money getting a bunch of ratings and experience to have an joe smo guy/gal treat you like you are the lowest pond scum on this earth? If so give swaps & drops a call they will make you feel right at home. Now my theory is they process somewhere around 10k request each month by paper that’s just a guess. Either way I picture that whole department looking like a old decrepit bunch of people before they even hit 40. The most famous message you will ever see out of them is “denied due to staffing limitations” Oh you need off for your wedding? Denied due to staffing limitations. You need off because you want to see your little boy play a his last T-ball game? Guess what yep denied due to staffing limitations! Oh I saw there was 25 people available on reserve that day why can’t I drop that reserve day/trip denied due to freaking staffing limitations. Yep that’s right your home life will suck for the unforeseeable future.
School House-
The training is comparable to… actually nothing I can’t even compare it to anything else its so bad. Studying policies, flows, limitations, profiles, systems is so fast paced, and the ground school is such a joke you might as well drive a 100 miles per hour down the interstate and chunk the steering wheel out the window. That’s the level of hectic that goes on during critical learning phases. Hope you like teaching yourself. The sim training on the other hand is pretty good but they will look at you like you’re stupid when you don’t know your flows stemming from that ground that a 4 year old could have taught. UNSATS are a common occurrence around there.
These are very few of the many problems that are here. We could talk about pay, QOL, Flow, etc all day long. Let me tell you weigh your options out very carefully before you decide to come to Envoy. Corporate BS just like anywhere else just with a twist at that airline. Just know if you decide to go to Envoy still just know you will never win and the company doesn’t care about you like they portray. Go somewhere where you are more appreciated and the pay is better(plus QOL etc). If you are simple cfi Johnny who wants to fly bigger metal to impress his wannabe girlfriends while living in his mommy’s basement or a direct entry guy who is down to his last straw then this place is possibly for you, but if you want to take the smart road start with the majors or go somewhere else with more to offer than a flow that can be taken away at any minute. Sure it’s not all bad but it is a time that you’re making a serious career decision and not something to be handled lightly.
08-23-2018, 05:15 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Originally Posted by Mach1aviator
Was it the direct entry captain 45k sign on bonus that led you to Envoy? How about the promised A12 passes to and from work? What about the promised flow to American Airlines? Well step on down buddy come drink the kool aid that we once drank when we signed the dotted line on what was thought to be a very exciting day.. Did that get your attention well look no further I have a load to tell you before you make a dreaded mistake that will leave you moving to the armpit of the United States, Kids/Wife resenting you, pulling second mortgages, and/or divorced. Sounds fun ehh? Now before I get to far let me explain none of that has happened to me personally although close maybe once or twice, but this is just reality of what has, will, and what will continue at that place of employment for many pilots.
Direct Entry Captains-
I will start here.. So I am sure the company dangled a shiny carrot in front of your face with a bonus which immediately made you think of all the cool toys you could buy or whatever you decide to spend it on. Honestly they picked you up in a vulnerable state and used your previous experience to fill a crack in a sinking ship that they created. If your dream is to be on reserve for eternity in LGA/JFK then again step on down buddy! Oh flow you say? Yeah get ready for a dreaded 10 year wait, sure they don’t take in account for attrition blah blah blah. So freaking what its 7-8 years instead of 10 years for your flow. Newsflash they have flow agreements in for the “protected pilot” group what’s that you ask? I don’t know its people hired in a specific time period that you are not in. What’s significant about that is your group that you will be hired in doesn’t really have a great agreement in fact the flow numbers are cut in half once all the protected pilots have flowed.
“I will just sign up get 121 pic time a big bonus and apply to other carriers”. Although this can work for some I’m here to tell you everyone says this, but only 10% of pilots at Envoy have an application in to the Majors. Getting comfortable is one of the worst things someone can do here. Ok next up why would a direct entry person want to come to a place where they aren’t hiring many FO’s anymore? Seniority and a jet engine are things you need in this industry but selling your soul to the devil will only get you one of those at Envoy. One last thing Envoys training could be taught by a chimpanzee because you won’t learn anything you will leave with more unanswered question than what you had going in. So enjoy that while you are learning all new company policies. Oh lied one more thing you actually will learn from some really experienced IOE captains for 50 hours that probably waited 6-12 years to upgrade or 10-12 years to finally get the chance to be called for the flow this year now here you come first day on the job a captain.. you get the point.
Sick Leave-
While sick leave is most widely used for time off in all reality sometimes people get sick so what why is this a big deal? Your first year Envoy will tell you without hesitation be careful about calling out sick. I get the reoccurring sick calls are frowned upon, but let’s say you use one to many sick calls in your first year you get the can or the companies sugar coated “career decision day” This is even if you have the built up sick time bank.
Vacation-
If you are a line holder vacation is actually nice, in short if trips touch your vacation days that you had to bid for may I add then those trips drop off your schedule. So a week’s worth of vacation turns into 3 weeks or whatever. Don’t worry if you are direct entry captain you will have vacation during reserve and it will be a whopping 4-5 days with reserve days on the front side and backside. That’s the usual line holders days off in a row on a case to case basis.
Crew scheduling-
The crew schedulers are actually decent depending on who you talk to.. Ok this will raise some debate! If you are reserve you will get the good ol shafting from time to time and you will realize once you become a line holder that the level of respect they give you is much different. Idk maybe its because you don’t really talk to them anymore.
Swaps & Drops
Did you ever dream of spending half your life and all your money getting a bunch of ratings and experience to have an joe smo guy/gal treat you like you are the lowest pond scum on this earth? If so give swaps & drops a call they will make you feel right at home. Now my theory is they process somewhere around 10k request each month by paper that’s just a guess. Either way I picture that whole department looking like a old decrepit bunch of people before they even hit 40. The most famous message you will ever see out of them is “denied due to staffing limitations” Oh you need off for your wedding? Denied due to staffing limitations. You need off because you want to see your little boy play a his last T-ball game? Guess what yep denied due to staffing limitations! Oh I saw there was 25 people available on reserve that day why can’t I drop that reserve day/trip denied due to freaking staffing limitations. Yep that’s right your home life will suck for the unforeseeable future.
School House-
The training is comparable to… actually nothing I can’t even compare it to anything else its so bad. Studying policies, flows, limitations, profiles, systems is so fast paced, and the ground school is such a joke you might as well drive a 100 miles per hour down the interstate and chunk the steering wheel out the window. That’s the level of hectic that goes on during critical learning phases. Hope you like teaching yourself. The sim training on the other hand is pretty good but they will look at you like you’re stupid when you don’t know your flows stemming from that ground that a 4 year old could have taught. UNSATS are a common occurrence around there.
These are very few of the many problems that are here. We could talk about pay, QOL, Flow, etc all day long. Let me tell you weigh your options out very carefully before you decide to come to Envoy. Corporate BS just like anywhere else just with a twist at that airline. Just know if you decide to go to Envoy still just know you will never win and the company doesn’t care about you like they portray. Go somewhere where you are more appreciated and the pay is better(plus QOL etc). If you are simple cfi Johnny who wants to fly bigger metal to impress his wannabe girlfriends while living in his mommy’s basement or a direct entry guy who is down to his last straw then this place is possibly for you, but if you want to take the smart road start with the majors or go somewhere else with more to offer than a flow that can be taken away at any minute. Sure it’s not all bad but it is a time that you’re making a serious career decision and not something to be handled lightly.
Direct Entry Captains-
I will start here.. So I am sure the company dangled a shiny carrot in front of your face with a bonus which immediately made you think of all the cool toys you could buy or whatever you decide to spend it on. Honestly they picked you up in a vulnerable state and used your previous experience to fill a crack in a sinking ship that they created. If your dream is to be on reserve for eternity in LGA/JFK then again step on down buddy! Oh flow you say? Yeah get ready for a dreaded 10 year wait, sure they don’t take in account for attrition blah blah blah. So freaking what its 7-8 years instead of 10 years for your flow. Newsflash they have flow agreements in for the “protected pilot” group what’s that you ask? I don’t know its people hired in a specific time period that you are not in. What’s significant about that is your group that you will be hired in doesn’t really have a great agreement in fact the flow numbers are cut in half once all the protected pilots have flowed.
“I will just sign up get 121 pic time a big bonus and apply to other carriers”. Although this can work for some I’m here to tell you everyone says this, but only 10% of pilots at Envoy have an application in to the Majors. Getting comfortable is one of the worst things someone can do here. Ok next up why would a direct entry person want to come to a place where they aren’t hiring many FO’s anymore? Seniority and a jet engine are things you need in this industry but selling your soul to the devil will only get you one of those at Envoy. One last thing Envoys training could be taught by a chimpanzee because you won’t learn anything you will leave with more unanswered question than what you had going in. So enjoy that while you are learning all new company policies. Oh lied one more thing you actually will learn from some really experienced IOE captains for 50 hours that probably waited 6-12 years to upgrade or 10-12 years to finally get the chance to be called for the flow this year now here you come first day on the job a captain.. you get the point.
Sick Leave-
While sick leave is most widely used for time off in all reality sometimes people get sick so what why is this a big deal? Your first year Envoy will tell you without hesitation be careful about calling out sick. I get the reoccurring sick calls are frowned upon, but let’s say you use one to many sick calls in your first year you get the can or the companies sugar coated “career decision day” This is even if you have the built up sick time bank.
Vacation-
If you are a line holder vacation is actually nice, in short if trips touch your vacation days that you had to bid for may I add then those trips drop off your schedule. So a week’s worth of vacation turns into 3 weeks or whatever. Don’t worry if you are direct entry captain you will have vacation during reserve and it will be a whopping 4-5 days with reserve days on the front side and backside. That’s the usual line holders days off in a row on a case to case basis.
Crew scheduling-
The crew schedulers are actually decent depending on who you talk to.. Ok this will raise some debate! If you are reserve you will get the good ol shafting from time to time and you will realize once you become a line holder that the level of respect they give you is much different. Idk maybe its because you don’t really talk to them anymore.
Swaps & Drops
Did you ever dream of spending half your life and all your money getting a bunch of ratings and experience to have an joe smo guy/gal treat you like you are the lowest pond scum on this earth? If so give swaps & drops a call they will make you feel right at home. Now my theory is they process somewhere around 10k request each month by paper that’s just a guess. Either way I picture that whole department looking like a old decrepit bunch of people before they even hit 40. The most famous message you will ever see out of them is “denied due to staffing limitations” Oh you need off for your wedding? Denied due to staffing limitations. You need off because you want to see your little boy play a his last T-ball game? Guess what yep denied due to staffing limitations! Oh I saw there was 25 people available on reserve that day why can’t I drop that reserve day/trip denied due to freaking staffing limitations. Yep that’s right your home life will suck for the unforeseeable future.
School House-
The training is comparable to… actually nothing I can’t even compare it to anything else its so bad. Studying policies, flows, limitations, profiles, systems is so fast paced, and the ground school is such a joke you might as well drive a 100 miles per hour down the interstate and chunk the steering wheel out the window. That’s the level of hectic that goes on during critical learning phases. Hope you like teaching yourself. The sim training on the other hand is pretty good but they will look at you like you’re stupid when you don’t know your flows stemming from that ground that a 4 year old could have taught. UNSATS are a common occurrence around there.
These are very few of the many problems that are here. We could talk about pay, QOL, Flow, etc all day long. Let me tell you weigh your options out very carefully before you decide to come to Envoy. Corporate BS just like anywhere else just with a twist at that airline. Just know if you decide to go to Envoy still just know you will never win and the company doesn’t care about you like they portray. Go somewhere where you are more appreciated and the pay is better(plus QOL etc). If you are simple cfi Johnny who wants to fly bigger metal to impress his wannabe girlfriends while living in his mommy’s basement or a direct entry guy who is down to his last straw then this place is possibly for you, but if you want to take the smart road start with the majors or go somewhere else with more to offer than a flow that can be taken away at any minute. Sure it’s not all bad but it is a time that you’re making a serious career decision and not something to be handled lightly.
Anyone that has been in this industry or about to be should know that hiring waves have a huge impact on QOL. Joining a 2500 pilot group at the back end of a 1400ish hiring wave where growth seems to be subsiding isn't the most optimal move for some people that will commute.
08-23-2018, 06:00 AM
#7
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
I don't agree with everything you said here but like I always say everyone's experience here will vary widely. I don't doubt that you experienced much of the angst felt in this post. Envoy offers a fantastic QOL for some and for others the QOL can be unbearable.
Anyone that has been in this industry or about to be should know that hiring waves have a huge impact on QOL. Joining a 2500 pilot group at the back end of a 1400ish hiring wave where growth seems to be subsiding isn't the most optimal move for some people that will commute.
Anyone that has been in this industry or about to be should know that hiring waves have a huge impact on QOL. Joining a 2500 pilot group at the back end of a 1400ish hiring wave where growth seems to be subsiding isn't the most optimal move for some people that will commute.
08-23-2018, 06:24 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 101
Originally Posted by Mach1aviator
Oh lied one more thing you actually will learn from some really experienced IOE captains for 50 hours that probably waited 6-12 years to upgrade or 10-12 years to finally get the chance to be called for the flow this year now here you come first day on the job a captain.. you get the point.
As far as studying goes in the school house... every question you have (and will have asked of you) can be answered by reading and STUDYING from the FM-1, AOM-1, and AOM-2. Anything outside of that most likely is not of major importance in terms of passing an SV/PV. What are we in elementary school and need to have everything spoon fed to us?!
It's not so much the quality of training that has gone down here recently. It's really the quality of applicants that has gone down.
08-23-2018, 06:25 AM
#10
New Hire
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Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by fenix1
“...if you want to take the smart road start with the majors...”
When I read something like this, the credibility of the rest of the post is next to nil - I was quite unaware that Envoy (DEC or otherwise) & the majors regularly competed for the same pool of pilots......
When I read something like this, the credibility of the rest of the post is next to nil - I was quite unaware that Envoy (DEC or otherwise) & the majors regularly competed for the same pool of pilots......
especially for the direct entry captains sorry I didn't specify. I don't know if anyone has told you but AA, Delta, United all hire off the street too. Don't be the "I didn't try because I know they won't say yes" type of ass wipes! Take that credibility and shove it where the sun don't shine.
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