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Envoy Airlines Regional Airline

ENY vs PSA vs PDT

Old 10-30-2018, 12:14 AM
  #1  
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Default ENY vs PSA vs PDT

I’m trying to evaluate which WO is my best bet, all things considered and given my goals/situation, and I’d appreciate your objective thoughts toward that.

It’s important to me to live in base & at a base that’s as junior as possible for both FO’s & CA’s, but I have some flexibility on where we’ll live (biggest consideration is someplace where the cost of living is sane in a neighborhood that doesn’t require donning Kevlar to get mail); I currently live in the DFW area, but we have no ties here (other than my wife holding a decent - but not great - job) and we may well choose to move to ORD if we get on with ENY to live in a more junior base. I’ll be starting indoc at age 42. My goal is to fly as much as possible (while living in base) to get 1000 hours 121 ASAP to upgrade as soon as possible & build TPIC - I see the regionals as a means to an end. In a perfect world, I’d like to avoid 50-seat equipment (although don’t care whether I end up in CRJ-7/900 or E-175), but - if there’s enough overall & more important positives - then E-145 or CRJ-200 would be great (ie, no SJS here, but I know QoL is better in larger equipment, all other things being equal). Ultimate goal may or may not end up being AA (another legacy or an LCC/ULCC or even an ACMI could well end up being the primary objective), but I believe it’s wise to have the flow as insurance/backup (I’ve done the work to understand other regional options & what I’m giving up for the flow and WO’s are what make sense to us, all things considered).

Thanks in advance for any objective input you’re good enough to share.
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Old 10-30-2018, 12:20 AM
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At 42 years, how impressive is your previous resume?
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Old 10-30-2018, 06:25 AM
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At that age you have a decent shot of getting the 175 and you'll get through training fast, fly a lot, get off reserve fast, and have great QOL/schedule if you want to be in ORD. To me, in your shoes, Envoy would be an easy choice. Especially with DFW available in class to many 175 hires, saving you a move if you decide that it would be better to stay and bid in a slightly more senior base.

While the 145 is a terrible aircraft and I can actually understand feeling like you are too good to fly it, I would probably pick that over the CRJ here if you want to fly. And this is a choice you may be faced with -- Envoy has done classes of all 145/CRJ. The CRJ is a dying fleet and new FOs on it seem to fly very little and spend a very long time on reserve, whereas you will probably be able to cobble together 15-40 hours on reserve on the 145 if you hustle.

From what I understand, PSA guys fly plenty on really cool airplanes (still no A/T though) and you can get CLT which is a super nice place to live as long as you are careful about which neighborhood you set up in. You'll end up working somewhere else on upgrade, who knows for how long. I will also say that they seem to attract a much higher proportion of total jerks, which is not to say that we don't have plenty of our own, especially in ORD for some reason. Regardless, if I had a do-over I'd have gone to PSA probably.

Piedmont only has 145s and only had a Philly base, but I guess they're moving into CLT too. They're known to have major backlogs in their training pipeline, but beyond that I don't know much.
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Old 10-30-2018, 07:16 AM
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Tough question to answer. Mostly depends on where ya want to live.
9000 hours in the EMB 145 and it's still my favorite airplane but I never flew the others. I wouldn't say it's a "terrible airplane". I miss the simplicity. I left Envoy years ago and it was good to me. I would stay away from small fleets. When I was there the CRJ was a small fleet(but senior) so schedules were limited. Trading and available open time is smaller in small fleet aircraft. Sometimes small fleets can be good if it's junior because you can get Christmas and the vacations /weekends off if that's your thing. It's too complex to explain it all. I think going with a flow regional is a smart move. You can always apply off the street at other airlines.
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Old 10-30-2018, 02:55 PM
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At that age, I consider another career.
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Old 10-30-2018, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by E175 Driver View Post
At that age, I consider another career.

23 years left..

He could be in traning 4mo, fly a year, get hired by atlas and be a 747-800 CA by 46.
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Old 10-30-2018, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dera View Post
At 42 years, how impressive is your previous resume?
I would like to know some of the things you think would make a previous resume “impressive” for an older entrant to the industry that comes from a “non-standard” background?
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Old 10-30-2018, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CrowneVic View Post
I would like to know some of the things you think would make a previous resume “impressive” for an older entrant to the industry that comes from a “non-standard” background?
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to ask.

Nothing wrong with older guys. But if legacy airline is your goal, you need a pretty solid career before aviation to be competitive. If you've been a Starbucks barista for 20 years, you'll never get that call, because your experience level is lower than your peers, with nothing to back it up. And that's when flow would be nr.1 priority.

But if you've been an Astronaut, then flow wouldn't matter that much.
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Old 10-30-2018, 04:56 PM
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Thanks a lot for all your thoughts. Can you please help me put with what you’re referring to in your PSA comments in saying “still no A/T though”?

I definitely don’t see myself as “too good” to fly the 145 (or 200) and I’ll dive-in hard on the 50-seaters if that ends up being my best option, all things considered. I’m simply saying I’d rather fly higher credit/block trips more often (instead of 20 minute turns), all other things being equal, as I know many of you understand better than me at this point.

Originally Posted by NoValueAviator View Post
At that age you have a decent shot of getting the 175 and you'll get through training fast, fly a lot, get off reserve fast, and have great QOL/schedule if you want to be in ORD. To me, in your shoes, Envoy would be an easy choice. Especially with DFW available in class to many 175 hires, saving you a move if you decide that it would be better to stay and bid in a slightly more senior base.

While the 145 is a terrible aircraft and I can actually understand feeling like you are too good to fly it, I would probably pick that over the CRJ here if you want to fly. And this is a choice you may be faced with -- Envoy has done classes of all 145/CRJ. The CRJ is a dying fleet and new FOs on it seem to fly very little and spend a very long time on reserve, whereas you will probably be able to cobble together 15-40 hours on reserve on the 145 if you hustle.

From what I understand, PSA guys fly plenty on really cool airplanes (still no A/T though) and you can get CLT which is a super nice place to live as long as you are careful about which neighborhood you set up in. You'll end up working somewhere else on upgrade, who knows for how long. I will also say that they seem to attract a much higher proportion of total jerks, which is not to say that we don't have plenty of our own, especially in ORD for some reason. Regardless, if I had a do-over I'd have gone to PSA probably.

Piedmont only has 145s and only had a Philly base, but I guess they're moving into CLT too. They're known to have major backlogs in their training pipeline, but beyond that I don't know much.
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Old 10-30-2018, 04:59 PM
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Many thanks and great insight regarding small fleets!

Originally Posted by QuagmireGiggity View Post
Tough question to answer. Mostly depends on where ya want to live.
9000 hours in the EMB 145 and it's still my favorite airplane but I never flew the others. I wouldn't say it's a "terrible airplane". I miss the simplicity. I left Envoy years ago and it was good to me. I would stay away from small fleets. When I was there the CRJ was a small fleet(but senior) so schedules were limited. Trading and available open time is smaller in small fleet aircraft. Sometimes small fleets can be good if it's junior because you can get Christmas and the vacations /weekends off if that's your thing. It's too complex to explain it all. I think going with a flow regional is a smart move. You can always apply off the street at other airlines.
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