New Hire to Line in NYC
 

Hey all,

As a potential new hire who has no issue with NYC, what’s the time frame for me from new hire to line on the 145?

Been trying to find some relevant information on the topic but everything is very much confusing.

Thanks


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~4 months and increasing, possibly rapidly. NYC is now a shrinking base and hasn't been offered in class in awhile. There is little net attrition now except people going to Miami, since DFW and ORD are suddenly very junior, and upgrades are basically balanced by senior FOs transferring from DFW or ORD to get a line (about 25 out, 20 in last bid).

This is just my best guess.

Any reason for that?


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On decreasing lines, presumably AA dictated it.

On not offered in class, you get 3 months of free hotels in NYC if you get it in class - it's like Christmas, and Envoy does not want you to have Christmas.

Exactly, Envoy doesn't want to give anyone NYC in class anymore. They were more than happy to force people there against their will, then offer some relief in the form of hotels, but now, they dont need them anymore so out of luck.

I was hired in feb 2018. I was on reserve in NY until October.
I held a line in October and November but as of December I'm back on reserve along with about 10 FOs more senior than me due to about 20 lines getting taken out of NY and moved to ORD. Theres something like 80 fos on reserve in ny for the 140... seems like weird planning by envoy. Maybe a few FOs will xfer back to ord next vacancy? who knows.

Don’t come to Envoy. Terrible QOL and terroristic management.

There are way better options right now. Come to Envoy only if Mesa doesn’t take you!

Going to get worse before it gets better, lots of senior FOs coming in by Jan 1 (many of whom will be back on reserve themselves).

Based on Wilson's projection for lines, most junior FO holding a line in Jan will either be a Jan18 or Dec17 hire. Assuming 3 months from hire to completion of IOE, that's 9 mos. of reserve even in LGA. Yikes dude.

In moments of despair, I for one take solace in the fact that if I got the 175 in class, I'd have a 16 day off line in DFW right now.

Envoy was on my top 2 list with Endeavor but now things look like they are slowing down so much I'm starting to reconsider. I'm 47 and would be commuting from SYR. With 1300TT I will be applying this month and should have 1500TT by Feb. What are these "better options" if I want to fly and get a line reasonably fast?

From Syracuse?

Air Wisconsin.
$hitty pay and work rules, but they'll fly your butt off because they are so understaffed and you can get the hours and upgrade rather quickly to move on to someplace more reasonable.

Commuting from SYR to CAE or MKE? Sounds awful.

Also I wouldn’t say things at Endeavor are slowing down. The future is still bright, although reserve times are higher than other places at the moment until Delta can get their regional consolidation plan finalized.

Yea, I have pretty much ruled out Air Wisconsin because of the difficult commute. Only 1 direct flight a day to IAD from SYR. So if I'm willing to sacrifice QOL to fly, with a doable commute, I'm even looking at Commutair. That is really pushing it for the QOL part of the equation though (from what I hear), but there are a lot of direct flights daily to EWR (4). I would go for AWI if there were more flights....



Looking like a long reserve may be in my future is I want something with a better QOL these days.

Another potential FO NH here with no 121 time. I’ve read through countless threads but most people are in different situations. I am praying for the 145 because I actually want to end up LGA based unlike everyone who seems to be forced there

I’m hearing rumors that the 145 may not be offered in Jan/Feb classes due to 175 deliveries.

Any truth to these rumors?

Knowing LGA likely won’t be offered in class and assuming I am able to bid the 145 out of DFW or ORD, how long does it take to get to LGA? I understand LGA is slowing down but historically everyone seems like they want to get out of there ASAP.

How difficult is it to get to LGA if not based there out of training (which I know is unlikely)?
How long are reserves at LGA?
Any flying to be had as an FO out of LGA?
Any chance NY base will be closed again?

We aren't sure what they'll offer. Many are interested in learning in advanced what will be offered in a particular class, but it is not information Envoy makes available.

There is reason to believe that they will start sending new FO's to LGA again once an agreement entitling newly-trained FOs involuntarily send to NYC to 3 months of UNLIMITED hotels in NYC expires - I have read this agreement and do not see where it says the hotels deal expires, but many seem to think it is gone in Feb.

I feel safe saying that you will get a base transfer from ORD-LGA during the first vacancy bid run while you are in training provided you get the 145. Lately, Envoy has been making pilots wait 3-4 months for the transfer, so it is possible you could have to work in Chicago for a minute after IOE depending on timing. If you do not get the 145, we have permanent FO seat lock here, so NY will be off the table. You seem to know this already, but just in case.

There is unfortunately very little flying on the 145 in any base as a reserve pilot. I averaged around 10 hours a month while in NYC earlier this year. This fleet is extremely bloated with pilots. You can pad your hours with OT if you live in base, but I am not sure what a realistic expectation might be doing this.

Reserve in LGA is currently about 9 mos. out of training, 12-13 mos from hire.

NYC may close tomorrow, or it may double in size. Projections the co. shared with us recently suggested that it was being cut dramatically, but the reality has been very different (almost 30% off so far). AA is very capricious and unpredictable, and they are the ones who decide where we fly.

Why not go to endeavor? Better pay. Better work rules. LGA right away.

47?!?!?!
Regional?!?!
SYR?!?!

What, did you just get out of Dannamora for that vehicular homicide gig?

Get a real job.

Because both Endeavor and Republic aren’t hiring until Q4 of 2019. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’d rather get my seniority and sit reserve than wait over a year to start training...

New Hire to Line in NYC
 

You want LGA?????

They are full for a GREAT reason. I’d interview with Republic and Endeavor if I were you. QOL/job satisfaction/peace of mind is better there I know ppl there. Plus you will fly and upgrade! Good training atmosphere, better Rsv rules, much better pay & soft pay, better Mgmt relations/mutual respect/trust/professional treatment(I have friends at both places). Treated well they are happy to have you. Here you are treated like you OWE THE COMPANY

Getting in the civilian hiring wave to AA off the street will increase dramatically. Waiting for the wolf to blow the house down (flow) in 8-10+yrs is not a wise decision. Not in this environment and the retirements industry wide to come! Growth is influencing the plan, but growth is cyclical, it will stop at some point. Retirement is probably enough to continue flow trickle, but still! Past is indication of future they will trickle/meter/send minimum to maintain cheaper WO regional feed operation.

Current pilots entering Envoy for the past 2-3 years have a much weaker “ flow” foundation than the 824, PP & L10-11 pilot had. Current flow IMHO is not a wise reason to base your decision to come here.

You have 1 life to live, enjoy it, make decisions on reality, on facts & positive relations, not skilled marketing or dreams, reality is a B sometimes, it’s still a job! Make sure you can enjoy it minus the bull & fluff. Be attentive.

Isn’t envoy going to have contract negotiations soon? Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought they were on the same schedule with AA.


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2024 if I remember right.

The LOA regarding hotels in NY is not the one set to expire. The LOA set to expire is the one that allows forcing FOs on reserve with 800-950 hours of 121 time to fly.

2024 is the expiration and it has a limited re-opener in October of 2022 which any agreements must be cost neutral to the company. So basically this contract will be around for at least 7 more years because AAG will not be in any hurry to come to an agreement when we are cheaper than others.

Unless they need something from us of course and then contract is back open again. B

Based on the schedules being published for January it will be at least 9 months for me before steadily holding a line. and at least 12 months from Date of hire. So this ^ is accurate.

Reserve flying is crap unless you are senior on the reserve list and proffer for it, even then, no chance of going over guarantee.

Open time? What open Time? I request 99% of the open time I am legal for and almost never get approved for any. And if you don't live in base, i assume it would not be worth it.

in terms of base shrinkage? we lost 20 lines for a month but got at least some of them back the next month. Who knows what happens next month? hopefully good things :). Right now, though, it doesn't seem like AA/Envoy are interested in growing NY.

For those who unluckily got the 145 recently, is there a way in DECS to look at each base and determine the junior lineholder? I don't care which base I'm in, just where has the best chance to build hours and hold a line (one day...). I've heard it could be NYC or ORD.

(Edit: I do understand the contradictory nature in the above statements using words "145" and "build hours" in the same post)

There is an interactive seniority list on envoy.alpa.org website. Wait a bit for it to be updated, that will be your best bet guessing tool going forward.

Funny how the 145 is the new CRJ in the hearts and the minds of the newhires )))

Quit your *****ing, cash your bonus check, and suck it up. If you didn’t research before you came then it’s your own fault. Envoy runs in cycles and soon the reserves will be purged and holding lines. There are captains here who ensured years on reserve and you should probably complain to them because they love hearing about how you got a big ole check to come here, retentions bonuses and other perks that they didn’t. They love to hear about your rough life.

The 145 is a great airplane to fly and will treat you well. Get your nose in the books and off of APC. You’d better embrace the WSCOD because you’re paired with her for the next two years. PIT mode is your friend, and enjoy the last jet that you can fly 250 to the marker in and still fully configure by 1000’.

Not without deep DECS access.

Or a bunch of friends in different bases running 3xp and sharing results.

Just look at the reserve lists for next month and see what the top of the reserve list seniority is. Just take out the senior guys that obviously bid reserve on purpose.

NYC is the fastest new hire to line situation on the 145 at a little over a year. This is unlikely to change even with the reduction of NYC lines in my opinion.

If you read the Piedmont threads and also the statements made by Parker, Piedmont will remain its current size.

Piedmont can’t barely staff the fleet size they currently have and training pipeline/througput is a massive issue. Relief on their training backlog has ‘been around the corner’ for the last 2+ years.

As far as NY lines go, here is the only accurate account since NY reopened. The flying will continue to shuffle between all the 140/145 bases as AA flight file sees fit. All the predictions have been off on this front.

There are also bubbles within bubbles with regard to seniority, upgrades, times to holding a line etc as a result of so many varying factors which we are not privy to such as; the 140 coming out of the desert, MIA reopening, ORD becoming a 175 base, more 175’s announced coming Envoy’s way.

There’s just way too many things that have a ripple effect months and years later.

The ripple effect then may work in your favor and you make out like a bandit, and other times you get the short end of the stick.