Airlines and Family Life
 

Hi all-

I’m a previous 121 guy thinking about coming back and I wanted your thoughts...

I miss the airlines. I miss the travel and the variation in flying and being extremely proficient (I’m a 91 guy now).

My wife is pregnant and is due in February. I’d like to hear from the parents who raised their kids while flying the line. I know I’ll miss some things and I understand it’s tough. How difficult is it with a newborn? Any advice or counsel I can get from you guys?

I appreciate the help!

Not enough information
Commute or live in base? Family support where you are?

Sorry. Commuting from RDU. Open to any base, plenty of flights daily to all three, but ORD is usually the most open.

Being junior with young kids at home plus commuting sucks.

If you're fortunate you'll get the 175 in new hire class, which I've heard has reserves that are actually used and a relatively short time on reserve before you hold a line. The fleet is expanding as well, with several aircraft on the way through 2020. More flying equals more options and comforts when it comes to picking lines each month.

If you're like most people though, you'll be on the 145. In either ORD or LGA. At the moment either base is overstaffed on the FO side of the 145, with reserves not being used much, and a much longer time spent on reserve overall.

If you live in base, you will spend the first month or two mostly on airport standby, sitting in the crew lounge for 8 hours a day until you get called or they send you home. After this initial time you'll move to receiving 14 hour RAPs, which start at 4AM or 10AM. These RAPs have a two hour call out window, unless you are in NYC where you get 3 hours to show.

Reserve lines are set up in 4 on, or 5 on sets of days working, with 11 days free from work altogether.

If you commute while on reserve, you will most likely need a crash pad. You will spend your 4/5 days out of the week waiting for work, and probably only get called once or twice for a low time turn. The RAP that starts at 4AM will be mostly uncommutable the same day, but it does end at 6PM, leaving you with options to go home. If you start on the 10AM RAP you'll be able to come in easy enough but getting home will be an issue as that one doesn't end until midnight.

If you call crew scheduling you could potentially get out of either RAP or standby shift early, staffing permitting. You'll have better chances as you gain seniority.

On your first day of a set of reserve days you'll most likely be preassigned a 4AM RAP. You'll still be legal for the 4 or 10AM shift the next day however, so what crew scheduling will give you might be hard to predict. If you do end up on a 10AM RAP, you will only be legal for subsequent 10AM RAPs unless scheduling can let you out early from a 10AM RAP so you can legally ask for the 4AM shift.

There is a "proffering" system in place for reserves, where you tell scheduling which shift you prefer to work the next day. If there are trips open the next day they can also be requested in lieu of working a reserve shift. This is all seniority based of course.

Once you DO get a line, you'll be stuck with mostly 11/12 day off lines until you can hold better. At the tail end of your stint as an FO you'll be holding 15-17 day off lines. Once you upgrade you get to repeat the reserve process. We've got a high number of FOs due to upgrade in the next year so there's a chance the CA seat won't be so understaffed, leading to a better QoL on reserve overall.

How much 121 time do you have? You have to take that into consideration. While there is a good chance the forced upgrades will stop in the foreseeable future, if you already have 950 hours or are close, you need to look at all the direct entry captain threads to get an understanding of where you may be.

I’ve heard of Piedmont giving new pilots personal leaves year one as an additional hiring incentive.

This does not happen at Envoy, drops are almost invariably auto-denied, and no policy for family sick leave exists other than FMLA, which you are not eligible for during your first year.

I’m at 920 hours. I’m ready to upgrade, and of course don’t want to sit reserve, but I understand that’s just life at an airline.

Eh, more like with it taking 11 months from indoc to OE, they won’t miss having you around for a few weeks if your child is born, have to take the family on vacation etc.

Once flying the line expect 11 days off until you leave the company. Occasionally they’ll make a mistake and you’ll get 12 days off but they’ll do their best to junior man you into your day off to bring it back to 11.

11 days is what we get here. The difference is you guys fly and we just sit in our bases.

With all due respect how are you ready to upgrade if you haven’t been flying 121 and have been 91? Not saying you’re not ready but being ready to upgrade can mean your QOL will be affected heavily.

You’re in a tough spot if you come to envoy since you’ll likely be forced to upgrade no matter what so your QOL be affected regardless. Living in base is the difference from being mentally stable to mentally drained. Commuting to reserve is a death sentence. If you can live in base it’s not bad as you’re home with family and your new born.

Starting young family and airline career at the same time while commuting is not the best of plans. You didn't answer in regards to local family support but that really helps too.

I strongly advise to move to the base you get awarded wherever you're hired. If you can move to a base with local family support as well, even better. If you can't live in base, please live with local family support.

Even if your wife doesn't like the idea of moving, she'll hate you're new commuting lifestyle even more... far more. Even if she doesn't know it now. And you will too.

Live in base and it's the easiest job on earth. I "work" 5 days a month or so as a 145 FO in Dallas. Commute and it will be real tough on your family. Welcome to message me if you want my take on it and more details

Actually, if you’re in RDU you can drive to CLT at Piedmont. You’ll be able to hold it within your first bid in training as an FO and about 18 months as a CA.

Once you get through training, there’s relatively minimal reserve. Still low pay, still 90 min call out, still 11 days off but junior captains tend to have build up lines and fly 50-60hrs a month from the DECs I’ve talked to.

If you’re considering commuting to Envoy, PDT may be a sustainable option for you. Not sure if you’re DEC material but you can bid for upgrade as soon as you want and have the time if you aren’t.

I completely agree with this. Happy wife equals happy life. PDT will eventually get their training fixed but if you can drive to work, then absolutely do it. Reserve for a commuter at Envoy is tough. Make your life as easy as you possibly can.

I have 920 hours 121 time.

I like PDT, and the fact I could hold CLT again, and wouldn’t be opposed to PHL. My issue is the training backlog. I already work very little and sitting at home only flying 15 hours a month is killing me. I’m salary, so the money is fine, but I want to be flying. Waiting a year to complete training at PST seems unbearable.

I'm not sure PDT is where you want to go for QOL purposes. The main issue at PDT is QOL due to schedules. There are other reasons to make a case for PDT but not schedules. Doesn't PSA have CLT as well? CLT and SAP seems like an easy choice for me.

Yes Envoy reserve commuting is unbearable. Absolutely the worst.

I’m prior PSA. Left under good terms for a desk job and realized I wasn’t built to fly a desk. Obviously would be nice if I could slide back into my seniority but clearly that’s not happening 😑

That’s a fair point. The plus side to the training backlog if you go in as a FO is that you can continue to fly on your own outside of PDT for a period of time after indoc. I know several who took a week off from their old job for PDT indoc and went back to work until ground school started at PDT.

The second plus side for being a new parent may be that you can spend many days a month at home not flying vs many days a month in a crash pad an not flying.

If you go in as a DEC (which you may qualify for since you need 90hrs of OE... you’ll have to research that) your training timeline will be compressed since PDT is critically short on CAs and are pushing DECs through much more quickly, especially since they’re paying them as CAs on day one.

Being home every night is important, but it isn’t everything. I left flying for quite a few years and was home every night but I was miserable. I’ve been gone a lot over the last year or so but my wife and I get along much better. The kids part is tough, you have to make a distinct effort to be involved and to connect with them. When you’re home, give them all your attention. Do all your work and recreation on the road if you can.

Consider Allegiant if you want to plan your career around QOL/family. I certainly am.

Hopefully they survive their screwball management getting into the hotel business(wtf?????)

Yeah being home everyday is a pretty sweet perk, assuming you can live in one of their bases. Commuting on them sucks ass from what I hear.