Envoy 2019
01-11-2019, 04:02 AM
#161
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Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,649
Originally Posted by pitchattitude
And if you aren’t changing equipment, you aren’t eligible for the 5 hour override.
Just wanted to add for clarity and to put to rest that rumor.
01-11-2019, 04:55 AM
#162
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Vacancy bid
So from the latest union email on bidding 3P vs 3D(15G4) vs proffer to displace.
3P is pretty straight forward you bid what you can hold that is OPEN. Everyone gets this and understands it.
3D/Displacement/15 G 4 - all pilots that fall under this status can bid what they can hold.
Proffer to displace- You can ONLY proffer to displace to an open vacancy or position. (This is news to me.)
I think this is where the disconnect comes from. I hope this clears a few things up.
Also, is there really 10 senior FO guys that didn't get forced to upgrade? If so this may be a savage move made by the company on purpose. Those senior FOs have to be a CA for one year before they can flow. So if the company doesn't force them to upgrade then the flow will.
3P is pretty straight forward you bid what you can hold that is OPEN. Everyone gets this and understands it.
3D/Displacement/15 G 4 - all pilots that fall under this status can bid what they can hold.
Proffer to displace- You can ONLY proffer to displace to an open vacancy or position. (This is news to me.)
I think this is where the disconnect comes from. I hope this clears a few things up.
Also, is there really 10 senior FO guys that didn't get forced to upgrade? If so this may be a savage move made by the company on purpose. Those senior FOs have to be a CA for one year before they can flow. So if the company doesn't force them to upgrade then the flow will.
01-11-2019, 09:09 AM
#164
New Hire
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by Cyio
So I waited to post until I had double checked things and this post is wrong. In regards to preference bidding vs displacement, so long as they are forcing upgrades there is no advantage to preference bidding it, as it will all come down to what you can hold anyway.
If you could have won the award in a preference, you could have won the award with a displacement as well. So in reality, it really doesn't matter, except that by preference bidding you lose out on the override pay. This of course would all change if the company stops force upgrades, but as of now, they haven't.
In regards to the override pay, I have asked around and the company is awarding the override pay to FO's, regardless of equipment change or not. Let's hope that continues.
If you could have won the award in a preference, you could have won the award with a displacement as well. So in reality, it really doesn't matter, except that by preference bidding you lose out on the override pay. This of course would all change if the company stops force upgrades, but as of now, they haven't.
In regards to the override pay, I have asked around and the company is awarding the override pay to FO's, regardless of equipment change or not. Let's hope that continues.
So real world example:
The most JR FO who preference bid to OCL was sen 1990. If he had put only 3D and no 3P he would have held the seat anyway because there were 2 F/O jr to him that were displaced into OCL.
Is this what you’re saying?
01-11-2019, 09:36 AM
#165
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Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
So from the latest union email on bidding 3P vs 3D(15G4) vs proffer to displace.
3P is pretty straight forward you bid what you can hold that is OPEN. Everyone gets this and understands it.
3D/Displacement/15 G 4 - all pilots that fall under this status can bid what they can hold.
Proffer to displace- You can ONLY proffer to displace to an open vacancy or position. (This is news to me.)
I think this is where the disconnect comes from. I hope this clears a few things up.
3P is pretty straight forward you bid what you can hold that is OPEN. Everyone gets this and understands it.
3D/Displacement/15 G 4 - all pilots that fall under this status can bid what they can hold.
Proffer to displace- You can ONLY proffer to displace to an open vacancy or position. (This is news to me.)
I think this is where the disconnect comes from. I hope this clears a few things up.
And yeah, you explained it better but I had a post a page or two back that explained just how someone could end up in the wrong airframe by misunderstanding how the bids work.
01-11-2019, 10:11 AM
#166
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Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,649
Originally Posted by Notakeofflaps
So real world example:
The most JR FO who preference bid to OCL was sen 1990. If he had put only 3D and no 3P he would have held the seat anyway because there were 2 F/O jr to him that were displaced into OCL.
Is this what you’re saying?
The most JR FO who preference bid to OCL was sen 1990. If he had put only 3D and no 3P he would have held the seat anyway because there were 2 F/O jr to him that were displaced into OCL.
Is this what you’re saying?
01-11-2019, 10:53 AM
#167
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 262
Originally Posted by KodiakRS
7V only shows flight time for the last year. Many of the first officers who weren't displaced have very low annual flight time. A pilot hired in 2014 that only flies a few hundred hours a year due to union work, mil leave, medical ect. could still be below the 950 hour mark.
Also, there are a number of first officers senior to the most senior FO displaced to CA on this bid that were previously awarded/displaced into CA slots but have not gone to training yet.
Finally, with the standing vacancy there's a chance that the company is intentionally leaving CA slots unfilled. As an example let's say 100 CA slots for a position are posted in a bid. The company wants at least 80. Only 50 people bid for it so the company displaces another 30 to get their 80 and leaves 20 for the standing vacancy. I have no idea if this is contractually legal or not but if the company is doing this it would at least be nice of them to let us know what the minimum number they're looking for is.
Also, there are a number of first officers senior to the most senior FO displaced to CA on this bid that were previously awarded/displaced into CA slots but have not gone to training yet.
Finally, with the standing vacancy there's a chance that the company is intentionally leaving CA slots unfilled. As an example let's say 100 CA slots for a position are posted in a bid. The company wants at least 80. Only 50 people bid for it so the company displaces another 30 to get their 80 and leaves 20 for the standing vacancy. I have no idea if this is contractually legal or not but if the company is doing this it would at least be nice of them to let us know what the minimum number they're looking for is.
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