Envoy’s new hire training
 

Hello gets,

New member here. I’ve just reached ATP mins and have some questions about training at Envoy.

I’ve reached my 1500 hours teaching mostly private pilot students in Cessna 172s. I do not have my CFII and have very little IFR experience besides my IR training.

My question is, how much harder will training be for a person like me with very little IFR time?

What can I do now to increase my success in training?

I look forward to your response -

I'll save these guys the trouble.

Get IFR experience. You will not do well in any 121 program if you are not IFR proficient.

Almost everything is instrument EHSI with a flight director. Jepp approach plates.

Doesn’t matter what operator.

Do you have the 75 hours instrument required for the ATP?

Definitely need to be instrument proficient and should be current.

I do have the 75 hours required for the ATP. I’m not instrument current but I do plan on getting current and doing a couple hours in an FTD with an CFII before training.

I specifically put the emphasis on proficient first and not on current. Just because you are current per the FARs doesn’t mean proficient. That is the most important part.

And if you haven’t spent much time in actual IFR conditions, I would recommend that as well.

The training is mostly memorizing flows, multiengine procedures (single engine go arounds and stuff), then tons of ifr. 100% of daily airline ops are ifr, so you need to be sharp on ifr skills.

Sorry, but from what you said you are smack in the middle of the demographic of those who are not successful in training. Your training is going to be very difficult. I hope I'm wrong. Good luck.

I have no dog in the fight but to play devils advocate here. How did all the pilots make it through training back in the early 2000s when they did ATPs 90 day program and got hired at 250hrs? A lot of those pilots went straight into flying VOR and NDB approaches with 50ish hours of IFR time in a piston.

I'm not saying its smart or safe but I think its just like every other demographic of pilot "it depends on the person".

Back in those days did a new hire get a PIC type rating and an ATP ride? I’m not sure, but there’s obviously different practical test standards if so.

Just a hunch, I could be wrong

For anyone trying to pass a 121 new hire training (any airline), here is the secret sauce:

Attitude, show up hungry to learn. You gotta want to learn not only the plane but the company too.

Study, lots and lots. Here is how: note cards. Write out the notecards. The act of writing will be another time you see the specific details. Doing the cards over and over again will help. After that quiz and be quizzed by classmates.

Get sleep, don’t stay up all night. If your tired you will only waste your own time as you won’t learn squat.

Excercise, not crazy but a little goes a long way.

Eat decent food. Burger King has bent many new hires over and railed them. Doesn’t gotta be super vegan BS. Just decent, like leave it to beaver.

Have a beer, A Beer! Not The Whole darn 6 pack. Seriously have a beer, not kidding, I’m encouraging a drink.

Study some more, be an expert.

Lastly, ask good questions in class and stay engaged. This will be of tremendous benefit for everyone.

Best of luck

This is pretty spot on guidance to be honest. I do want to focus on one particular item and that is study with your classmates.

Form a group of four that get along with each other, don't make the mistake of a huge group or it gets distracting. Study and quiz each other over and over again. I have found time and time again that people seem to do the best with this route.

As around for a "study guide" and use that to quiz each other. You will learn almost everything you need to know for training by doing that. Beyond the quizzing, ask questions, especially in the early days of CPT so that you at least have a grasp of the avionics.

Good luck!

That’s good advice for some, but certainly not all. I’ve never been one to study in groups, and I’m fact I find it counter-productive.

I do highly recommend studying flows and call outs with your sim partner though. That is mandatory for success.

To each their own I suppose, however you even hear them at the schoolhouse tell you that group study, when done correctly is the best way to get through this. Hard to beat a few other people asking you questions over and over and then you do the same.

As for being counter productive it certainly can be, hence why I stated no more than 4. Anyway, just some advice and from doing it a few times over the years, it seems those that group up have an easier time than those who dont and as an added bonus, you will usually make some friends that will stick with you for your career.

No it was just an SIC rating but I think the IFR standards were the same either PIC or SIC.

Envoy’s new hire training
 

Why don’t we Ram them through training. Save some $,$$$. Let the newer LCA’s, and unseasoned CA’s save our butts by just train them on the on the line how to operate 121 IFR and how to properly shoot approaches on the line, and how to not royally jack up radio calls in IFR, professional, 121 environment!

OP... Don’t come here without IFR currency, comfort, and proficiency at both flying, handling radio calls, (general multi-tasking,thought processes/decision making) in that environment. You will thank the Aviation God(s) one day for this post and will have a prosperous career.

Edited: Taking short cuts into 121 when not ready for what is ahead is unwise, it could slap or bite you hard during training and beyond.

Not to go totally off the rails, but if you're still pretty young it might serve you well to get on with a 135 operation for a little while. A year in a citation or learjet would be a nice preparatory buffer between flight instructing and this. On a side note, it would also tell you how you feel about flying on that side of the industry so you don't have to second-guess yourself about making the right decision when you're sitting airport standby.

No one including myself said any of the above was a good idea. I simply stated that its been done before successfully. Personally I think the OP could be just as successful as anyone else if they have the right attitude along with taking the time to brush up on IFR flying before coming to 121 training.

I'd suggest a couple ground sessions with a seasoned CFII for review along with daily self study and with a few training/eval flights/FTD sessions. If the confidence of handling a solo IFR flight after that is not there then I'd suggest more IFR exposure. I'd be willing to bet if the OP has taught private students mostly their stick and rudder skills are probably pretty sharp.

OP make a plan and evaluate yourself just like you would a student. You're only hurting yourself if you get in over your head. Good Luck!

Envoy’s new hire training
 

[MENTION=87363]pilotdude101[/MENTION] good recommendations above. Best of luck to you, remember to enjoy the journey! Your entering at a great time no matter where you go.

Yeah, the school houses definitely push that, I agree. I think most people know how to study by this point, assuming they’re a college graduate. That being the case, continue to do what works. I’ve always hated group study and found it a waste of time. But if the OP has never tried group study, absolutely they should see if it works. Either way, they do need to buddy up with someone for their first 121 training event. It’s definitely a lot to take in until you get the hang of it.

I also agree being social is important, and hanging out with my classmates over the years has netted me some pretty cool friends.

Keep in mind that a 121 training program isn’t there to teach you IFR skills.....you’ve gotta have it down on day 1. How to enter a hold, fly a procedure turn, requirements to go below MDA/DH...you have to have the fundamentals down cold. 8-10 full motion simulator sessions to learn to fly a modern transport category jet is no joke....no time for remedial IFR training.

Envoy’s new hire training
 

Concur. Forget the multi requirement. They should up the IFR requirement for entry to the bigs. Hand-flying an approach in a transport category jet with no AP... you got no time to work on rusty IFR skills.