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Old 04-11-2019, 11:52 AM   #1  
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Default Envoy Cadet what to do now?

This is my first time posting in the Envoy forum but I am a cadet and I have been a cadet for over a year now. CFI/II will have my hours by August/September. I have been reading the Envoy forum for 2 years pretty much everyday. (I probably spend way too much time reading APC but I find it very entertaining) I am fully aware of all the bad things there are. With the recent pay change at PSA I am having serious second thoughts about coming to Envoy. I would be living in Indiana commuting to ORD out of IND till mid summer 2020 and was hoping to move to Dallas permanently. First I wanted to say I fully understand getting the 175 is not a for sure thing. I donít have anything special with the 175 but I also do not want to see the reserve times the 145 has. I wanted to preface that my two most important items are quick upgrade, initially what drove me to Envoy, and living in base (Dallas). To tell the truth the flow is a good back up plan but I know it could be gone in the time 9 years rolls around and I honestly donít have much interest in Flying for AAL. I also know that their is pressure for pay raises but if management was asking for concessions just months ago it just doesnít seem like they would even go for new pay rates and reserve although I have no idea since the PSA rates came out of no where it was an honest shock. I also want to say that I have cadet instructors at republic and endeavor and Skywest tell me they want to apply at Envoy. I basically just say donít do it until the pay changes and it throws me off as to why I would want to work somewhere when I tell other cadets donít do it. To add, when Envoy comes here with a big shiny 175 no matter the pay I have people run up to me how do you apply, how was the interview, Envoy is amazing. There was talk on here of how do you guys stop cadets from coming. Honestly I want to say almost no one who is a cadet where I am has any idea how the airlines work and most just see a nice big jet with the American logo all over it. Oh and ďthis is the last interview in your lifeĒ. They sign right up and I wonít say that Envoy doesnít treat us well because they do and everyone I have met has been supportive, helpful, and very nice to talk to. And many of the pilots I have met and some are even my friends have all be great! I guess Iím a bit torn. My other option would be Skywest DFW but honestly having a union appeals to me even though I understand that Envoy just fired that FO. My other issue with Skywest is I have had some experience learning the CRJ and just my particular taste I really did not like it at all and I much prefer the Embraer product. In addition to that I may be wrong I donít spend much time reading the Skywest forum but do they still have block or worse? Also the Skywest routes out of DFW are nothing special but I do like the DFW and ORD routes on the 175. Last choice would be republic but that would mean giving up living in base and commuting my whole regional airline career which does not sound appealing at all even though Iíd say republic has the Best QOL in the industry. Also republic upgrade time is much longer than most other regional airlines but I guess it could be on par with someone who was awarded the 145 and sat reserve for over a year flying very little. Iím just asking for some advice or tips I have a while to make up my mind and I plan on waiting till the fall to decide and see if the pay changes.


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Old 04-11-2019, 12:46 PM   #2  
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I wouldn't plan on Envoy pilots getting a raise. Management is very hostile towards our pilot group, almost terroristic. It couldn't be more different from the relationship PSA has with their management. I would go to Skywest. Still might at this pace.
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:01 PM   #3  
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I echo what Varsity says. We have a management group that is so out of touch with reality and lives to make our lives hell. When your VP laughs during a discussion about reserve and says "reserve is supposed to suck" you know you're dealing with individuals on a different plane. Even if we do get the money, the management will still be here, and they will still hate us.
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:03 PM   #4  
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Stay far away from Envoy. Treated like dirt from management, worse pay and work rules in the industry. Plus you won't get a quick upgrade. New hire FOs aren't getting much flying, maybe 250 to 350 hrs first year. We are over staffed on FOs hence longer time to upgrade and no pay raised.
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:06 PM   #5  
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If you are not locked into coming here by a contract, I would bail out now and find a new home. If Dallas is a must, Skywest would be your best bet. While they are not unionized, they do have lots and lots of pilots and a good reputation in the industry. I dont see them going anywhere. In addition, a union is only as strong as management allows in this industry, due mostly to the RLA restrictions. Our union has great people and I can attest they fight the good fight, however a lot of the times they simply cant get things done due to management not wanting to play ball.

You have time to change your path, I would use it wisely. As for us getting pay raises, part of me is thinking that our initial enthusiasm for it happening was wrong. The management here is hostile and has shown that it will terminate, step letter etc for varying degrees of misconduct, regardless of how they handled it in the past.\\

As for upgrades, well I wouldn't say we are "fast" anymore compared to what we had going on a year ago. You can pretty much look at 2-2.5 years at virtually any regional right now, especially if you are willing to move/commute to a junior base/fleet. \

Give it some thought. Last thing, why does Dallas have to be your destination? I understand if family, girlfriend, wife, kids etc, just want to make sure you are not pigeon holing yourself. Did I read that correctly?
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:25 PM   #6  
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If you are not locked into coming here by a contract, I would bail out now and find a new home. If Dallas is a must, Skywest would be your best bet. While they are not unionized, they do have lots and lots of pilots and a good reputation in the industry. I dont see them going anywhere. In addition, a union is only as strong as management allows in this industry, due mostly to the RLA restrictions. Our union has great people and I can attest they fight the good fight, however a lot of the times they simply cant get things done due to management not wanting to play ball.

You have time to change your path, I would use it wisely. As for us getting pay raises, part of me is thinking that our initial enthusiasm for it happening was wrong. The management here is hostile and has shown that it will terminate, step letter etc for varying degrees of misconduct, regardless of how they handled it in the past.\\

As for upgrades, well I wouldn't say we are "fast" anymore compared to what we had going on a year ago. You can pretty much look at 2-2.5 years at virtually any regional right now, especially if you are willing to move/commute to a junior base/fleet. \

Give it some thought. Last thing, why does Dallas have to be your destination? I understand if family, girlfriend, wife, kids etc, just want to make sure you are not pigeon holing yourself. Did I read that correctly?


I am not locked in I signed the contract but I have not taken any money or travel benefits. Iím getting nothing from Envoy. Iím willing to commute for sometime but I do want to live in base. I have spent time living in the North East, Florida, now Indiana. Texas especially Dallas appeals to me. No income tax, cheap land, fits with who I am and I love Florida but itís just so over crowded near Miami and FLL. Girlfriend has plenty of job opportunities in Dallas but there isnít much in FL and we both donít want to be in the cold anymore. The only thing about Ny is i have family in the city would be able to stay with them whenever needed but I could never live in the NE again just not for me and way too expensive. Iím really trying to find a good balance between time at home while also working as hard as I can for the 1000 pic.


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Old 04-11-2019, 01:38 PM   #7  
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If you are not bound by the contract, then I would really recommend choosing another airline. I'm not even using management, pay scales, etc for that decision. You mentioned building time is a top priority. Envoy is no longer a good place to do this, the FOs are over staffed. PSA would be good now as the top pay scales coupled with flow would make it very attractive. It could experience growth and really help out your seniority if you beat the majority of the hiring wave like some of us did here at envoy a little while ago when pay rates went up.
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:46 PM   #8  
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Default Envoy Cadet what to do now?

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If you are not bound by the contract, then I would really recommend choosing another airline. I'm not even using management, pay scales, etc for that decision. You mentioned building time is a top priority. Envoy is no longer a good place to do this, the FOs are over staffed. PSA would be good now as the top pay scales coupled with flow would make it very attractive. It could experience growth and really help out your seniority if you beat the majority of the hiring wave like some of us did here at envoy a little while ago when pay rates went up.


I understand but by the time I have my hours Iíll probably be behind the hiring curve if I went to PSA. The truth about PSA is none of the bases appeal to me and if Iím not going to live in base Then Iíd probably start looking more at endeavor and republic. There just hasnít been the promise growth at endeavor everyone was talking about when their pay went to 50$


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Old 04-11-2019, 01:48 PM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by md11pilot11 View Post
I am not locked in I signed the contract but I have not taken any money or travel benefits. Iím getting nothing from Envoy. Iím willing to commute for sometime but I do want to live in base. I have spent time living in the North East, Florida, now Indiana. Texas especially Dallas appeals to me. No income tax, cheap land, fits with who I am and I love Florida but itís just so over crowded near Miami and FLL. Girlfriend has plenty of job opportunities in Dallas but there isnít much in FL and we both donít want to be in the cold anymore. The only thing about Ny is i have family in the city would be able to stay with them whenever needed but I could never live in the NE again just not for me and way too expensive. Iím really trying to find a good balance between time at home while also working as hard as I can for the 1000 pic.


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Iíve heard people say good things about the Charlotte area. Know one FO that commutes to NY and another buddy that works for a fractional. Has PSA written all over it.
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Old 04-11-2019, 03:35 PM   #10  
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Go to PSA..CLT way better area than Dallas depending on what you like to do in your free time.
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