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Old 04-15-2019, 05:57 PM   #1  
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Default Seniority, upgrades, exc

I appreciate all the help/answers from those of you who have been around. One question I have relates to seniority. Does seniority begin when you start day 1 with the company, and if so, is there anything that can change your seniority while still employed with the same company? Once you pick a regional, doesn't it benefit you to stay there until you move to a major if possible? For example, if a new hire FO starts in April, and then 6 months later another pilot starts but comes into the company as a "street" captain, would the new hire FO eventually be senior to the transfer once he/she upgraded (basically, wouldn't the person who transfers mid career always be junior until everyone hired before him/her caught up to them?)
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:05 PM   #2  
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I appreciate all the help/answers from those of you who have been around. One question I have relates to seniority. Does seniority begin when you start day 1 with the company, and if so, is there anything that can change your seniority while still employed with the same company? Once you pick a regional, doesn't it benefit you to stay there until you move to a major if possible? For example, if a new hire FO starts in April, and then 6 months later another pilot starts but comes into the company as a "street" captain, would the new hire FO eventually be senior to the transfer once he/she upgraded (basically, wouldn't the person who transfers mid career always be junior until everyone hired before him/her caught up to them?)
Seniority starts day one.

If anyone joins after you buy upgrades before you do, once you upgrade you are still senior to the guy that joined after you.

I.e. street captains can be stuck on perpetual reserve as FOs that have been at the company longer upgrade.
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:48 PM   #3  
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I appreciate all the help/answers from those of you who have been around. One question I have relates to seniority. Does seniority begin when you start day 1 with the company, and if so, is there anything that can change your seniority while still employed with the same company?
Seniority at Envoy starts on day 1 of newhire training. Some airlines do it at the end of sims, end of IOE, projected training completion date ect. Leaving the company due to leave of absence, resigning, or getting fired may have a negative effect on your seniority but it depends on the specific circumstances.

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Once you pick a regional, doesn't it benefit you to stay there until you move to a major if possible?
To an extent yes. Going to another airline starts you back at square one. Having said that, if you have a good reason to jump to another airline such as quality of life, sign on bonuses, not commuting, faster flow/upgrade it may be worth it. Sometimes your airline may go bankrupt, things get really ugly, and your company renames you after an SUV like the Jeep Compass, Mitsubishi Endeavor, or that one GMC makes, in which case it may be time to make what's known as a "lateral move" to another regional.

This is one of the reasons that one universal seniority list has been a pipe dream of ALPA for decades. The chances of this actually though are basically zero.

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For example, if a new hire FO starts in April, and then 6 months later another pilot starts but comes into the company as a "street" captain, would the new hire FO eventually be senior to the transfer once he/she upgraded (basically, wouldn't the person who transfers mid career always be junior until everyone hired before him/her caught up to them?)
Both of the pilots in this are "new hires" when they are hired. Previous experience means nothing with regards to seniority, it just so happens that one of them meets the qualifications to be captain and the other does not. As you mentioned, street captains tend to stagnate on the bottom of their specific aircraft/base seniority list as most first officers upgrading to captain will be senior to them. This will last until the pilots hired after our street captain become qualified to upgrade to captain themselves.
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Old 05-09-2019, 11:47 AM   #4  
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Default CA Upgrade

Are pilots with 1000 PIC upgrading fairly quickly? Or is it based on seniority?
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Old 05-09-2019, 11:57 AM   #5  
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Are pilots with 1000 PIC upgrading fairly quickly? Or is it based on seniority?
You need 1000 SIC to upgrade, currently at Envoy they are displacing eligible first officers to the captain seat. This means that not only are upgrades so junior that anyone with the time can get it, but the contract also allows for people who are eligible and DON'T bid for it to get upgraded anyways.

Up until very recently we were hiring captains with the required time from outside the company. From what I understand this is not longer the case. Many speculate that the company will eventually have the captain staffing to stop displacements but it's really anyone's guess as to when that will happen exactly.
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Old 05-09-2019, 11:57 AM   #6  
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Are pilots with 1000 PIC upgrading fairly quickly? Or is it based on seniority?
If you call a displacement/forced upgrade at 950 hr 121 "fairly quickly," then sure.
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Old 05-09-2019, 12:42 PM   #7  
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If you call a displacement/forced upgrade at 950 hr 121 "fairly quickly," then sure.
Prob should mention that how quickly you get to that 950 hr mark greatly depends on what equipment you get in class.
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Old 05-09-2019, 12:43 PM   #8  
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You need 1000 SIC to upgrade, currently at Envoy they are displacing eligible first officers to the captain seat. This means that not only are upgrades so junior that anyone with the time can get it, but the contract also allows for people who are eligible and DON'T bid for it to get upgraded anyways.

Up until very recently we were hiring captains with the required time from outside the company. From what I understand this is not longer the case. Many speculate that the company will eventually have the captain staffing to stop displacements but it's really anyone's guess as to when that will happen exactly.
I meant SIC time. Hmmmm, interesting. I appreciate the info. Thinking about putting my app in. Not sure if Id be ready to upgrade ASAP. Id rather get some time there and learn a few things first.
Anyone care to chime in on CA reserve life? Bases, how long for a line, etc.
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Old 05-09-2019, 12:48 PM   #9  
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I meant SIC time. Hmmmm, interesting. I appreciate the info. Thinking about putting my app in. Not sure if Id be ready to upgrade ASAP. Id rather get some time there and learn a few things first.
Anyone care to chime in on CA reserve life? Bases, how long for a line, etc.
Just to be certain, that is 950 hours of time that qualifies under 121.436.

There are plenty of comments on the Envoy forum about reserve as Captain. You will have no control over the base or equipment, but likely ORD on the 145, so be prepared to move there. Dont do it otherwise.
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Old 05-09-2019, 04:58 PM   #10  
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I meant SIC time. Hmmmm, interesting. I appreciate the info. Thinking about putting my app in. Not sure if Id be ready to upgrade ASAP. Id rather get some time there and learn a few things first.
Anyone care to chime in on CA reserve life? Bases, how long for a line, etc.
In general, reserve sucks as a CA at any regional. At Envoy, reserve is on par with one of Dante's 9 circles of hell. QOL is terrible. You have little control over your schedule. You will fly little, but be away from home a lot. You might even make less money than a FO at other regionals when you factor in the difference in monthly credit.
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