No DEC
 

Been reading posts for some time and well aware of concerns. Still, Envoy for me was the best way to go.

Starting Monday and wanted to know about bidding. The questions is old but the details are fresh. As you know DEC is no longer for the time being. Would like to bid ORD (junior I know), but unsure as to equipment. If I take the 175 (if available), as an FO would I keep it when I upgrade or do I drop to the 145? Better to bid 145 and stay there? Upgrades predicted at less than six months. Guess that could go down to one month too.

My class seniority should be fairly high. Thanks!

If you qualify as a DEC, you will still, essentially be one, but I’m guessing you are doing so without any extra bonus. If you have any qualifying time, save yourself some heartache and take the 145, especially if you want ORD. What you fly as an FO has no bearing on what you upgrade on, but you WILL upgrade as soon as possible, with or without qualifying time. If you have qualifying time, you WILL upgrade ahead of your peers and it WILL be on the 145. If you really want the 175, take the upgrade as a displacement and avoid the equipment lock. You can either decide to take the extra money, or be able to bid over to the 175 when you have the seniority.

Based on your post it sounds like you’re coming with some time that qualifies for upgrade which means you’re likely not a cadet which leads me to believe you should NOT be fairly senior in your class since cadets pick first.

In any case, you don’t really provide enough details to give great advice. Ultimately, pick whatever aircraft that has a base to where you don’t have to commute. If you MUST commute, get the 175 if you can due to the shortest reserve for FO. I don’t know about ORD but in my base (DFW) CA 145 lineholders are significantly junior to CA 175 lineholds. If it’s the same in the base you want to work at, upgrade to the 145.

You don’t want to commute to reserve.

Thanks for posts.

I’m not a cadet, so I know I’m behind them. Have 950 qualifying hours - so fairly high seniority behind cadets. Was originally told I would be DEC, but they say they have their quota of CAs now, so I come in as a NEC (near entry) - means an FO with CA bonus and upgrade when seniority hits.

Will be commuting from STL - hence wanting ORD. The 175 sounds great, but QOL and Base seems a higher priority for me now. Really trying to grasp the seat lock/displacement stuff. Haven’t been exposed to how it works at Envoy.

Do NOT take the 175! You will not make it out of training before being displaced to captain in the 145. Your life will be infinitely easier to go through the same aircraft you just learned.

Displacement-movement that is not your choice. You have the time, so again, YOU WILL be forced to captain in the next vacancy. They are the beginning of every quarter, so around first week of July. You will only have seniority for the 145 as captain, likely ORD, but that’s where you want. You WILL be on reserve for the next 16-24 months until your peer group gets hours to upgrade.

A displacement means you are not equipment locked. You can choose to ACCEPT an equipment lock, which will get you an extra five hours pay for 24 months. (Duration of the lock) It will likely be close to that long before you have seniority to hold 175, so you might as well take advantage of it.

One small bright spot to initial on 175 and upgrade on 145. The upgrade would be long term, so it will use up about a month of time you would otherwise be on reserve. Is a second consecutive long term worth that price? Only you can decide that one.

I figured you had some qualifying time but 950 is all you need for them to force you to upgrade. I agree with the above poster that said do not take the 175. You will be forced to upgrade to CA on the next bid. There are benefits to being displaced so do not vacancy bid to it. Once displaced, you’ll have two weeks to make a decision about seat lock or extra pay. If you do come, make sure you talk to someone about how to set your bid preferences and displacements before the bid is run and then talk to someone about seat lock vs pay once get the award.

Why would you come to Envoy as essentially a DEC without the extra money? There will be absolutely no one below you when you get displaced because the DEC hiring has stopped. Have you read the complaints about our reserve system? Why would you do that to yourself? I’m sure you have reasons, but I hope you know what you are getting into. You might spend that FO bonus and get yourself locked into multiple years of commuting to reserve. Talk to someone who has commuted to reserve here before you cash that check.

Obviously you have your reasons, but for wanting the be ORD based and having prior Part 121 experience, I'm surprised you didn't go for SkyWest. They'll pay you year-for-year based on your previous 121 time. If you're coming here for the flow (which I suspect you might), the company doesn't exactly have the most honest metrics for prediction ... but I think you know that.

Good luck in class on Monday. If I were in your shoes, I'd take the 145 -- that way, when they displace you to 145 CA in the very near future, you can continue on one airplane and then bid into the 175 as a captain once a vacancy pops up.

I second this. Looks like he will be commuting to endless reserve without even getting the 45k DECs were getting AND you will likely have to pay for a crashpad. Oof .. I have flown with DECs who totally regret coming here even with the bonus money they got cause they are at the very bottom of reserve for a LONG time. QOL will be nonexistent.

If you decide to come here, you will be commuting to reserve for 1.5-2 years ... I would think very hard considering our current reserve system.

You will essentially on a 5 on 3 off schedule and more than likely commuting to and from work on your off days, leaving you with 1 true off day per week ... let that sink in ...

You will either start with a 0400am RAP or 0600am STBY for your first day which means you have to come the day prior and lately peeps have been flying on their last day past the time their last flight home left ...

Again, let that sink in and decide if that is what you want to do for the next 2 years potentially ...