Some practical Envoy questions
 

Hey all, new poster here (see my introduction thread on the main board)

I have some general ENY questions that some of the recent board prospects arent asking (unless it is buried in some of the 1000 page threads) I hope some will humor me here and as always, I appreciate all the insight.

Disclaimer - I am aware of the pay negotiation situation (only as it reads here....no real inside info) and the ongoing discussions as posted on this page. I am also aware that one of the general opinions on APC is that filling classes is not a good look for those trying to improve their lives. Luckily, I am in no big hurry yet and do not have the SJS so I want to make sure I respect the efforts of those trying to make this industry better for everyone, while also trying to gather all the facts on prospective companies. I am former XJT but I fly a desk from 8-5 right now with only occasional travel.

1. Forced upgrade - Assuming I bid/recieve the 145 (which is what I have the most time in), will I be forced into upgrade? I would certainly like to fly as an FO first and learn the company flight profiles, operational differences etc. (XJT FMS was all honeywell, for example) but it sounds like that might not be up to me?

2. Base/eqipment - seeing as how I live pretty near DFW (1 hour drive), holding DFW would be the ultimate goal. Huge for QOL. Online it shows that the DFW 145 most jr captain is a June 18 hire. One year, that isnt too bad I suppose. If I am forced to upgrade, I know I will be on reserve for a long long time so sitting reserve at home is far more pallatable. Is that timeline accurate?

3. Junior man rules - how do reassignments work for line holders? Can you be reassigned by phone? Do you have to get released at the end of a trip? Are junior man assignments optional? (Try not to laugh too hard at that last question)

4. Reserve assignments - I have seen some of these answers on here....I am guessing scheduling pulls the “call you at 5am and release you to rest” to change your time/make you legal for a trip? Do captains fly as FO when on reserve? (Im guessing CA reserve is miserable?) Is there a limit to how many times you can sit airport appreciation? Is there an ability to jump on an open trip day before? Will they use all the FOs before putting a CA in the FO seat? Last, do you have automatic release at the end of a reserve trip or do you have to call for release?

5. Bidding - do you use PBS? Line bidding? Is there a line improvement window where you can potentially swap/drop trips or adjust schedule? That was something I loved at XJT....our line improvement window. You could really clean your schedule up nicely.

6. Seat lock - I would plan to bid whatever got me into DFW fastest.....if the landscape changed, how long are you locked into the 145 or 175 etc?

7. Any insight into company shenanigans in regards to going into SWAP every day so as not to have to follow the contract, working with crews on adjusting fuel/adjusting routes in weather, excessive MELs, etc. XJT was pretty good about all these items except for the daily SWAP? (Holy run-on...) one thing I appreciated about XJT was the CPO. Never gave us any grief about bereavement, fatigue, sick etc. (not that those all applied to me, I’m just speaking in general)

8. Soft time. What are you guys and gals getting for deadhead, cancellations etc? How are the lines in terms of credit and mix? Can you get 85+ Hours without working your off days?

Once again, I appreciate everyone’s help with noob question ON TOP of everything else you are dealing with. I am happy to recieve (and fully expect) the “dont come here” and “look at OO” responses etc. I am looking everywhere, I can assure you. Well...everywhere that has a DFW base and loosely places that have IAH bases (which is closer to a 3 hour drive and not ideal) I apologize for the huge list of question.

TL;DR - sorry to ask, hows life at ENY? :)

TL; DR Stay very far away from here. Really. This place isn’t even worth considering as a backup choice if you live in base. You are worth more, and literally everywhere will give you more.

1. Forced upgrade - Assuming I bid/recieve the 145 (which is what I have the most time in), will I be forced into upgrade? I would certainly like to fly as an FO first and learn the company flight profiles, operational differences etc. (XJT FMS was all honeywell, for example) but it sounds like that might not be up to me?

Yes, you will be forced to upgrade.

2. Base/eqipment - seeing as how I live pretty near DFW (1 hour drive), holding DFW would be the ultimate goal. Huge for QOL. Online it shows that the DFW 145 most jr captain is a June 18 hire. One year, that isnt too bad I suppose. If I am forced to upgrade, I know I will be on reserve for a long long time so sitting reserve at home is far more pallatable. Is that timeline accurate?

No telling really. Huge push for increased flying out of the north east on the 145. Could be longer than normal.

3. Junior man rules - how do reassignments work for line holders? Can you be reassigned by phone? Do you have to get released at the end of a trip? Are junior man assignments optional? (Try not to laugh too hard at that last question)

Unless OSO line holders are done when done. You can deny a JM but better have a good reason. Yes you can be reassigned by phone.

4. Reserve assignments - I have seen some of these answers on here....I am guessing scheduling pulls the “call you at 5am and release you to rest” to change your time/make you legal for a trip? Do captains fly as FO when on reserve? (Im guessing CA reserve is miserable?) Is there a limit to how many times you can sit airport appreciation? Is there an ability to jump on an open trip day before? Will they use all the FOs before putting a CA in the FO seat? Last, do you have automatic release at the end of a reserve trip or do you have to call for release?

Yes. Not often. Nope, you bid each night. Yes. Think so? Check HI3 and HI6.

5. Bidding - do you use PBS? Line bidding? Is there a line improvement window where you can potentially swap/drop trips or adjust schedule? That was something I loved at XJT....our line improvement window. You could really clean your schedule up nicely.

Line. Yes there is a window.

6. Seat lock - I would plan to bid whatever got me into DFW fastest.....if the landscape changed, how long are you locked into the 145 or 175 etc?

As FO until upgrade. Captain 2 years.

7. Any insight into company shenanigans in regards to going into SWAP every day so as not to have to follow the contract, working with crews on adjusting fuel/adjusting routes in weather, excessive MELs, etc. XJT was pretty good about all these items except for the daily SWAP? (Holy run-on...) one thing I appreciated about XJT was the CPO. Never gave us any grief about bereavement, fatigue, sick etc. (not that those all applied to me, I’m just speaking in general)

CPO is a crap shoot. Sometimes great, sometimes would watch you burn. Really comes down to personal experience. Fuel generally isn’t an issue, if you need it ask. If you are sick, call sick. Don’t abuse and you will be fine. Not sure what you mean by SWAP. Maintenance is actually pretty good.

8. Soft time. What are you guys and gals getting for deadhead, cancellations etc? How are the lines in terms of credit and mix? Can you get 85+ Hours without working your off days?

DH is .75 if I remember. Cancel is full pay. Avg line is about 73 hours or so. Higher hours typically go more senior. There are usually a handful of 85 hour lines. Not many, lots of low 70’s.

Once again, I appreciate everyone’s help with noob question ON TOP of everything else you are dealing with. I am happy to recieve (and fully expect) the “dont come here” and “look at OO” responses etc. I am looking everywhere, I can assure you. Well...everywhere that has a DFW base and loosely places that have IAH bases (which is closer to a 3 hour drive and not ideal) I apologize for the huge list of question.

TL;DR - sorry to ask, hows life at ENY? :)[/QUOTE]

Don’t come here. Things are really bad atm. You won’t be able to guarantee DFW, especially with the LGA push right now.

Don’t come here. Things are really bad atm. You won’t be able to guarantee DFW, especially with the LGA push right now. [/QUOTE]

OP... I'm sorry bro, you're this guy

Courtesy of Cyio

Totally massacred that meme format though

So a couple things to answer your questions. No pilot is required to answer their cell phone while at the airport. Full stop. No exceptions. Line holders or reserve included. We have airport standby and they have phones in the crew room but if you don’t want to hang out there then the cell phone is an option. We have “email” we have to check every day on duty. Pilots on RAP have to return calls within 15 minutes.

Your SWAP is what we would call “schedule integrity”. We have a clause where they can reassign us for any reason. It still has to finish with in 3 hours of the original sequence. We have OSO Off Schedule Opperations where if your last flight cancels then they can make you stay and wait for reassignment for four hours or the scheduled end of duty which ever is earlier.

I don’t think I did lol. I’m owning it.

This is correct. I interpreted the question as if they call and you answer, can they reassign you.

I appreciate the humor in your post but I’m not sure it applies. I’m certainly not a “screw it sign me up” guy. I’m asking the exact same questions to republic and others. I see your point though!

Ha fair enough. I'll bet you sign up in the end, though, lol.. Living in base does make one overlook a lot. Hope you get DFW right away and hope they get things turned around over there! Welcome back to the show, btw! Desk jobs suck!

1. If you have 950 hours of 121 time, you will be displaced to CA 145, most likely in LGA.

2. Thanks to constant FOs displacing CAs at upgrade, the junior DFW CA is looking more like Jan 18 according to our latest flow plan and seniority list.

3. Junior manning is pretty minimal because we have a crap-ton of reserves. approximately 50 per seat in each base.

4. By default, you start your reserve string with 2 hour callout (3 hour in LGA) starting at 4 am. At 5pm CST the day prior, you get your actual assignment for the next day. If you are senior on the reserve list, you might be able to get a same-day-commutable late-start flight or airport appreciation assignment.
Note: the low seniority upgrades have slowed to a relative trickle with the cancellation of the DEC program. It will take a while to get a significant number of CAs below you.

5. Line bidding, even for reserve days. There is a line improvement window, but it only applies to lineholders, so you won't be able to enjoy it for at least 2 years. As a reserve, you can request swapping days, but it will likely be "denied due to staffing". If it is approved, it probably won't be approved until the day prior to the requested swap.

8. Soft pay... the only thing you can really do to improve your pay above min guarantee is to pick up OT on your day off. Might be doable if you live in DFW (hey, you'll be at the airport after commuting home on your day off), but the pickings get slim and do you really want to pick up a Waco or Wichita falls turn or overnight?

TL;DR - don't come here. Look at OO. At least they will credit your previous 121 time for pay purposes.

1. Are you required to answer your phone or return any calls on a DFP?

2. If you're on standby until 11pm and it's 11:01PM but there's still a few delayed flights not off, can you leave or must you call to be released?

Nonononono

Will they try and call you at 11:05p to work a flight that is delayed until 11:40p? Who knows, perhaps they will since you never called to get released. Regardless they can’t assign you a flight that’s leaves any later than 45 minutes beyond the end of your standby shift.

Warning fellow reserve scum: scheduling interprets “45 mins after the end of your standby assignment” to mean the departure board says that at the moment it is assigned, when it subsequently delays 2 more hours and you call and tell them, scheduling feels you are on the hook until you time out. Have fun doing all night weather extravaganzas for 14 hours, remember to bang out fatigued when you can’t handle it anymore, and never bid standby.

Got a contract reference where it says that you have to call to get released from standby? (that's not what 12.F.3 means if that's what you're referring to?)

12.F.1.d is a good thing to keep in mind during IROPS. It has saved me before when the plane was not in Dallas, but scheduled to leave just at the end of my standby shift...dispatch did not want to tail swap, so off I went.

I have heard you are supposed to call CS to get released at the end of SBY, but like another poster said...no one does, and CS does not expect it.

If they call after your standby expires, just let it go to VM, and they will have to leave you a VM with the current time. Just don’t call back or check your HI2/HI3 any more that day.

Then what does 12.F.3 mean?

What it means is that you can't be released to RAP from Standby.

It means you can be released by contacting CS.
You can call at noon if you want - they will often release you if you are not the most junior pilot after S2 shows up, and the day isn't a total clusterf. But they can't say "ok you are good to go" and leave you on RAP.

The whole premise of 117 and duty regs is, that your duty time is preassigned and your rest is prospective. If you are assigned duty from x to y, there's nothing that says you need to be "released" from that duty. You are released when clock hits y, unless someone calls you and tells you otherwise.
The contract says you may be assigned to be on ready reserve for up to eight hours. After 8 hours, your day is over.

12.F.3 does not mean you have to call to get released.

Someone who knows the history of the contract might know better why they worded it that way, but since it's never used nor abused, I don't think anyone really cares.
But there's no reasonable interpretation that it says you HAVE to call to get released, it just doesn't read that way. "Remainder of the day" - your day ends when your duty ends.

You may be right but as it stands currently, I am looking at several, including OO.

How about republic? Good pay. Good contract. Nice airplanes and good bases. God bless. ;)

I’m certainly interested. My concern is that, despite having applied and emailed their recruiting department, I still have not been able to talk to anyone. I don’t have any hiccups or boxes to check that would exclude me.

I also hear that their classes are full for the rest of the year? Otherwise I’m very interested.

That should tell you something now shouldn't it. Given you are not in a hurry, I would wait that out, perhaps even calling them up on the phone.

You’re exactly right. It tells me a ton. Speaks volumes, for sure. Thanks again!

Question
 

PSA FO $50+ hourly
ENY FO $38+ hourly
Why such a large pay Gap if all these operators fall under AAG?
Honestly something doesn't add up. I already have a CJO at ENY and I'm thinking of ................ 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Our management has a serious hate-on for pilots. Steer clear if you have good judgment.

And if you have bad judgement I don’t want you to fly with me or fly my family.

Don’t be that guy.