Originally Posted by ag386 (Post 2854308)

It's a pilot's market. If you feel so strongly, turn in your 2 weeks notice today. There are plenty of jobs available. If you don't do this, then you are the problem.

Originally Posted by Cyio (Post 2854205)

It has become clear, based off the communications we are receiving, that new pilots coming to Envoy are indeed the cause of the company not increasing benefits to us.



It needs to be said, any pilot coming to this company from this point forward, is the reason for the delay and needs to own that they are part of the problem. You may have your reasons for coming here, you may have made an agreement, but at the end of the day, a deal with the devil is just that. You can justify it all you want, but you are actively choosing to slow down, if not stop, the betterment of 2300+ pilots and their families.



If we keep filling classes with 30+ people, it will be a cold day in hell before anything gets done. The union likes to say that not signing the AIP will hurt recruitment, well it doesn't seem to be doing anything as of yet, because people keep coming to class.



The union pilots working in recruitment, you too are the problem. Every person you get to come here is directly hurting your fellow pilots, not to mention the pilot you are getting to sign on the dotted line. You are locking these pilots into a contract that they won't be able to get out of, locking them into a system that manipulates their employees and locking them into a pay/benefit structure that is below industry standard.

Originally Posted by Throwitaway (Post 2854375)

Welp, by his logic, each pilot who has previously worked or is currently working at Envoy is a problem. Be the change you want to see in this world, everyone should quit today!

What a doofus.

Originally Posted by Shiner (Post 2854374)

Can’t really blame the new guys unless you’re working to get out yourself. They’ll have to hire a lot more than 30 per class if attrition gets bad enough.

According to the union, non flow attrition is only 94 pilots year to date. That’s pretty low considering how bad morale is out there right now.


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Originally Posted by Squirrel27 (Post 2854392)

I don't agree. Current Envoy pilots have a lot more to lose than somebody that is currently trying to decide what regional to work for. Relative seniority, vacation, pay, and other things are big forces in starting over at another company.

On the other hand, if you're just starting out, and don't have this to lose, picking a regional that doesn't make you one of the lowest paid regional pilots in the country with terrible work rules really makes sense.

Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 2854394)

Compass is moving out 20 guys a month, mostly Captains but a few senior FOs, from a pilot base less than a third the size of Envoys. People actually hustling and finding jobs to improve themselves and leave vacancies to be filled by the new guys coming in. Nobody is sitting around enjoying the life of a senior FO rather than upgrading. And nobody is shaming newbies who want a 121 job.

They are getting their 1000 of SIC in 16 months from intro, upgrading a month or two later and moving on promptly after they get their 1000 121 PIC.

That’s the price you pay for flow. Slow progression.

Originally Posted by Cyio (Post 2854205)

It has become clear, based off the communications we are receiving, that new pilots coming to Envoy are indeed the cause of the company not increasing benefits to us.

It needs to be said, any pilot coming to this company from this point forward, is the reason for the delay and needs to own that they are part of the problem. You may have your reasons for coming here, you may have made an agreement, but at the end of the day, a deal with the devil is just that. You can justify it all you want, but you are actively choosing to slow down, if not stop, the betterment of 2300+ pilots and their families.

If we keep filling classes with 30+ people, it will be a cold day in hell before anything gets done. The union likes to say that not signing the AIP will hurt recruitment, well it doesn't seem to be doing anything as of yet, because people keep coming to class.

The union pilots working in recruitment, you too are the problem. Every person you get to come here is directly hurting your fellow pilots, not to mention the pilot you are getting to sign on the dotted line. You are locking these pilots into a contract that they won't be able to get out of, locking them into a system that manipulates their employees and locking them into a pay/benefit structure that is below industry standard.