Leaving Cadet Program?
 

I am currently a cadet and considering going elsewhere upon reaching ATP minimums. I have not taken any of the bonus, so I'm not worried about having to pay that back. The part that I am concerned with is:

"During Employee's employment with Envoy as a Cadet Instructor and for a period of 12 months thereafter, Employee shall not work as a pilot for a commercial air carrier other than Envoy, anywhere that Envoy provides passenger airline services in the United States."

Anyone have any experience with this? Will they try to enforce it?

Sounds like trying to break up with a jealous ex. If I can’t have you, nobody can

Did you sign a non-compete?

Not a formal non compete, just an employment agreement that contained this clause. I doubt it would be enforceable but also don’t want the headache.

From my understanding it looks like a 2 year tie down but you're free to fly commercially in areas Envoy doesn't. e.g. WA and AK

If you signed an employment agreement that contained the clause, it sounds pretty formal to me.

Non competes in Texas are not black and white. Consult a commerce lawyer.

Here's some basic info.

https://www.davidcholmeslaw.com/blog...able-in-texas/

Should of thought twice before you signed your soul away to the devil.

I am obviously not an attorney, but listen to any recent 'State of the Airline' or earnings call post Kirby / UA exodus...tune in where Doug is asked about why none of the team has or will have an employment contract (seemingly required for a non-compete). To me, its awfully suspect that a cadet instructor would have a more binding agreement compared to any of AA's officers?

Retaining an attorney to review and write a cease and desist would probably not cost much in either case and would be worth the peace of mind.

Here’s an idea:

How about just talking with the company, telling them you received/accepted no funds, you would like to be completely released from the program because it just hasn’t worked out for you, and you would like to have an opportunity to stay in aviation and earn a living.

If they are not agreeable to that, just resign and seek employment elsewhere as you please. I dare say no court on this planet would enforce a no compete clause against you, as you are not a corporate insider and do not have any information at all that would be a threat to this company. Most courts are very supportive of allowing individuals to earn a living.

This is especially true where training contracts are concerned, as they are commonly deemed unenforceable by courts. The fact that you did not accept any money indicates that the company provided no consideration which would make the contract enforceable. Any contract typically requires legal consideration to be enforceable. If you’ve used travel benefits or something of that nature, that has the potential to be viewed as consideration, but highly unlikely.

A couple hundred bucks to spend an hour with a labor attorney might put your mind at ease and get you where you want to be. You might not even have to pay that, as most attorneys allow for a free initial consultation.

It will likely burn your bridges with AAG, but the chances of getting hired at AA and not being from a wholly-owned or the military are slim to none, anyway.

No it won't.

AA hired an OTS in Feb that was fired from PSA.

I’m more curious as to how Envoy would know you went to work for another airline if you don’t tell them.

I doubt they would know and probably wouldn’t really care. I just like to have things in order and not be worried about it coming back to bite me later.

Good advice. Thank you.

Hmmmm, who would that be?


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Ay, yes. Brilliant fellow, you are. Using the one guy who is part of the 5% miracle that is hired OTS and trying to get someone to believe they are a real candidate to get hired at AA from a non-WO carrier.

Sorry, statistically isn’t happening.

“So, you’re telling me there’s a chance!”:rolleyes:

It was a navy helicopter pilot that went through PSA’s RTP program. Not going to drop names on APC

You can just leave the program, plenty of CFI's I worked with ultimately decided not to go to Envoy and they didn't do anything. Especially if you haven't received any money or bonus yet, they would never take you to court or do anything because that would cost the company money and why would they pay money if you don't owe them money.

^^^^
This.

It's a form letter they give to everyone entering the program, regardless of whether they accept s bonus, or not.

There is no different letter for those declining the bonus.

Well duh nobody should be dropping names but I wanted to make sure it was a cadet or an RTP pilot. Cadets and RTP are totally different programs.

Cadets who don’t accept money are free to do whatever they want, that’s how that’s always been. The company doesn’t invest anything since the instructor gets paid by the school and they happen to get an advance on a bonus and flight benefits.

RTP pilots sign a deal and they get their entire fixed wing training paid for, and a bonus. The company invests a lot of money into pilots who are a part of this program. They get the advance, flight benefits, AND their training paid for.

Since the OP is talking about the cadet program, the RTP situation of having to lock down for 2 years right away before he comes to property is not applicable



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So you are saying a Navy RTP was FIRED by PSA and then hired by mainline? Doubtful. First the person would be barely above minimums and hardly competitive. And if fired for cause, that is a lot of explaining, IF called for an interview.

I have yet to see any specifics of anyone hired through the RTP that has been hired by any legacy. The very first RTPs are barely upgrading.

ULLCs and second tier stuff, absolutely.

Thank you. That’s what I was looking for.

What if you use the flight benefits? Will they treat that differently?

PRIA Probably...

They will find out when you put their name on PRIA forms and they send them a letter asking for your history.

I left another airline's cadet thing when coming to Envoy (on good terms). Their response to PRIA was "go away, not a pilot position". Reason I even put them on there was monthly CBTs that were a part of the program.

The scenario given, he was not an Envoy employee so Envoy would not get PRIA requests... as I understand it anyway.

Why would they send anything for PRIA? You were an instructor at a flight school, not an employee at an air carrier certificate holder.