New Direct Entry Captain bonus’
08-31-2019, 01:03 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,123
Originally Posted by RawHide
The new bonus structure is completely against the contract! The company is advertising bonuses to be paid out at the end of IOE and the end of one year. But this is not in the contract or any side letters.
Yet another grievance due to management ignoring basic contract law, and imposing their will on the pilot group, and a union more concerned with flowing than making waves. Honestly, I don’t blame them.... fighting back sure didn’t help Neal or me... and sends a great message to the MEC. Stay within bounds or they’ll target you too.
If we had a real union, when the company fires 1/6th of the MEC in one month (the two reps who fight them the most) then a real union would have had 3,000 pilots marching on centerport the next day with media coverage to boot. Nothing even close to that happened. They filed a grievance.
Get in, get your hours and get out. Keep the flow as a last resort backup. Don’t fight them or make waves, the only one to lose will be you. Get your hours and go someplace better. Plenty of options these days. It’s a great time to be a pilot.
08-31-2019, 01:29 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,649
Originally Posted by Cujo665
Is anybody surprised?
Yet another grievance due to management ignoring basic contract law, and imposing their will on the pilot group, and a union more concerned with flowing than making waves. Honestly, I don’t blame them.... fighting back sure didn’t help Neal or me... and sends a great message to the MEC. Stay within bounds or they’ll target you too.
If we had a real union, when the company fires 1/6th of the MEC in one month (the two reps who fight them the most) then a real union would have had 3,000 pilots marching on centerport the next day with media coverage to boot. Nothing even close to that happened. They filed a grievance.
Get in, get your hours and get out. Keep the flow as a last resort backup. Don’t fight them or make waves, the only one to lose will be you. Get your hours and go someplace better. Plenty of options these days. It’s a great time to be a pilot.
Yet another grievance due to management ignoring basic contract law, and imposing their will on the pilot group, and a union more concerned with flowing than making waves. Honestly, I don’t blame them.... fighting back sure didn’t help Neal or me... and sends a great message to the MEC. Stay within bounds or they’ll target you too.
If we had a real union, when the company fires 1/6th of the MEC in one month (the two reps who fight them the most) then a real union would have had 3,000 pilots marching on centerport the next day with media coverage to boot. Nothing even close to that happened. They filed a grievance.
Get in, get your hours and get out. Keep the flow as a last resort backup. Don’t fight them or make waves, the only one to lose will be you. Get your hours and go someplace better. Plenty of options these days. It’s a great time to be a pilot.
09-01-2019, 09:37 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,123
Originally Posted by Cyio
Pretty sad day when even you are conciliatory.
Without that unity (that we did have at the time), you can not win at the regional level. Anytime they have the ability to simply shift the flying to somebody else, both in and out of section six, then the deck is stacked against you.
If you put yourself on their radar, they just hunt and peck at every little thing you do, even when it's really nothing. They will fabricate violations out of thin air, and hold hearings that go nowhere on the fabrications, then refuse to remove the proven inaccurate records from your file forcing you to file grievances to remove each bogus record. Ask me how I know.
There are things you can do. You can fly FM-1. However, you don't want t be the only one doing it exactly as they have written. You need buy in from the majority of the pilot group. Sadly, the union can't even do more than just remind the pilots to fly safely according to FM-1... as prior cases at other carriers have hamstrung them from saying more as it could be construed as inciting a labor action.
If you were around for my emails on Bird/Bug strikes and the CAT-2 fiasco, then you're probably aware the company tried to claim they were illegal job actions. Simply notifying pilots what the company did to another crew, and reminding pilots what was in our CBA was enough for the company to try to make charges of a labor action.
The company fired 3 of the past 5 NY Captain Reps when I was there for sticking up for their pilots. One was fired seven times, and two were fired twice. The company fired the DFW CA Rep within a month of me. At the time they considered us their two biggest thorns in the side. They once called the MEC office when I happened to be there threatening to fire me because I called Jerry Glass a Jackass. They wanted me to delete the posting, print an apology and consider myself lucky they didn't fire me for rule 32 since he was technically an AAG employee/contractor. I told them I wasn't deleting it, that anybody that asks me what he's like will get the same answer, and they can go to hell. They didn't fire me that time, but it would have been three times if they had.
I do know they did fire me for 4 cases of alleged sick abuse, and when I produced medical records for the absences they declined to receive the documentation, and responded "we don't need to see those, you're discharged." I was back to work about a month later.
The second and final time was them claiming I had lied about resigning from a union position. A typo of the effective had been made, and subsequently corrected, but they considered it misleading.... and they accused me of being involved in the Charlie Bucket website and facebook page which was not me. While I did have involvement with the union campaign, I did no have anything to do with those two websites. In any event, back then social media transgressions where handled by bringing the alleged offender down to HQ for the grand tour of HQ to meet-n-greet all the managers in what we jokingly called the scared straight session. Everybody else got that; I got fired..... again.
Anyway, the point is that until the RLA is modified the strength of the union at the regional levels is very limited. It isn't like United. The company can't go to a United pilot and say take these concessions or we are giving your flying to Delta. They can do that at the regionals.
I tried at the 2014 ALPA National Board of Directors meeting to get modifying the RLA commensurate with modern regional business practices to be put on to the ALPA PAC task list. That motion triggered about 3.5 hours of presentations by ALPA lawyers on why the committee should not pass my resolution to the floor. The motion failed in committee.
I did manage to get a motion to direct the PAC and Natonal to defend the 1500 hour rule passed in committee and on the floor, and the campaign you've seen from ALPA National on pilot pay and the 1500 hour rule was due to your Envoy MEC. At that same BOD meeting your Envoy MEC was able to get National to create the National level office of Regional Coordinator, and they began actively running classes, programs, meetings and job fairs to help guys get out of the regionals and onto the majors.
Anyway, back to being conciliatory..... facts speak for themselves. Anybody who has fought them hard, has lost. I do not want to see that happen to other pilots. If they can learn from me and Neal that the management at the regionals are all unethical and the system is stacked against fighting them successfully, then they can focus on getting in, getting their hours, and moving up and out as quickly as possible.
Luckily, I ended up at a great carrier, and will upgrade on the 76 soon. It doesn't always work out that way, I was lucky that a good employer took the time to look past the word "termination" and review the actual records.
I don't like it, I don't agree with it, but it is the truth. If that can help the next generation have a quicker easier time than we did, then I've done something good and positive with something negative.
Last edited by Cujo665; 09-01-2019 at 10:00 AM.
09-02-2019, 08:00 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 226
Originally Posted by Cujo665
We had the chance to change the system. One regional airline pilot group can't do it alone. Every pilot group was voting no to concessions. Some two and three times. Then one pilot group raised their hands and said we'll take the concessions, along with their planes. Later their MEC even tried to argue they should get our pilots with the planes due to their staffing shortage. That gave management the ability to walk into crew rooms and tell our FO's, "trade in your Envoy ID for a XXX ID and you'll upgrade sooner, and flow to AA faster than if you stay here." Yes, they actually did that, and yes many did go over there and honestly, it does accelerate the career of the individual that does it, but it kills the bargaining power of the EVERY other pilot group that had been voting no.
Without that unity (that we did have at the time), you can not win at the regional level. Anytime they have the ability to simply shift the flying to somebody else, both in and out of section six, then the deck is stacked against you.
If you put yourself on their radar, they just hunt and peck at every little thing you do, even when it's really nothing. They will fabricate violations out of thin air, and hold hearings that go nowhere on the fabrications, then refuse to remove the proven inaccurate records from your file forcing you to file grievances to remove each bogus record. Ask me how I know.
There are things you can do. You can fly FM-1. However, you don't want t be the only one doing it exactly as they have written. You need buy in from the majority of the pilot group. Sadly, the union can't even do more than just remind the pilots to fly safely according to FM-1... as prior cases at other carriers have hamstrung them from saying more as it could be construed as inciting a labor action.
If you were around for my emails on Bird/Bug strikes and the CAT-2 fiasco, then you're probably aware the company tried to claim they were illegal job actions. Simply notifying pilots what the company did to another crew, and reminding pilots what was in our CBA was enough for the company to try to make charges of a labor action.
The company fired 3 of the past 5 NY Captain Reps when I was there for sticking up for their pilots. One was fired seven times, and two were fired twice. The company fired the DFW CA Rep within a month of me. At the time they considered us their two biggest thorns in the side. They once called the MEC office when I happened to be there threatening to fire me because I called Jerry Glass a Jackass. They wanted me to delete the posting, print an apology and consider myself lucky they didn't fire me for rule 32 since he was technically an AAG employee/contractor. I told them I wasn't deleting it, that anybody that asks me what he's like will get the same answer, and they can go to hell. They didn't fire me that time, but it would have been three times if they had.
I do know they did fire me for 4 cases of alleged sick abuse, and when I produced medical records for the absences they declined to receive the documentation, and responded "we don't need to see those, you're discharged." I was back to work about a month later.
The second and final time was them claiming I had lied about resigning from a union position. A typo of the effective had been made, and subsequently corrected, but they considered it misleading.... and they accused me of being involved in the Charlie Bucket website and facebook page which was not me. While I did have involvement with the union campaign, I did no have anything to do with those two websites. In any event, back then social media transgressions where handled by bringing the alleged offender down to HQ for the grand tour of HQ to meet-n-greet all the managers in what we jokingly called the scared straight session. Everybody else got that; I got fired..... again.
Anyway, the point is that until the RLA is modified the strength of the union at the regional levels is very limited. It isn't like United. The company can't go to a United pilot and say take these concessions or we are giving your flying to Delta. They can do that at the regionals.
I tried at the 2014 ALPA National Board of Directors meeting to get modifying the RLA commensurate with modern regional business practices to be put on to the ALPA PAC task list. That motion triggered about 3.5 hours of presentations by ALPA lawyers on why the committee should not pass my resolution to the floor. The motion failed in committee.
I did manage to get a motion to direct the PAC and Natonal to defend the 1500 hour rule passed in committee and on the floor, and the campaign you've seen from ALPA National on pilot pay and the 1500 hour rule was due to your Envoy MEC. At that same BOD meeting your Envoy MEC was able to get National to create the National level office of Regional Coordinator, and they began actively running classes, programs, meetings and job fairs to help guys get out of the regionals and onto the majors.
Anyway, back to being conciliatory..... facts speak for themselves. Anybody who has fought them hard, has lost. I do not want to see that happen to other pilots. If they can learn from me and Neal that the management at the regionals are all unethical and the system is stacked against fighting them successfully, then they can focus on getting in, getting their hours, and moving up and out as quickly as possible.
Luckily, I ended up at a great carrier, and will upgrade on the 76 soon. It doesn't always work out that way, I was lucky that a good employer took the time to look past the word "termination" and review the actual records.
I don't like it, I don't agree with it, but it is the truth. If that can help the next generation have a quicker easier time than we did, then I've done something good and positive with something negative.
Without that unity (that we did have at the time), you can not win at the regional level. Anytime they have the ability to simply shift the flying to somebody else, both in and out of section six, then the deck is stacked against you.
If you put yourself on their radar, they just hunt and peck at every little thing you do, even when it's really nothing. They will fabricate violations out of thin air, and hold hearings that go nowhere on the fabrications, then refuse to remove the proven inaccurate records from your file forcing you to file grievances to remove each bogus record. Ask me how I know.
There are things you can do. You can fly FM-1. However, you don't want t be the only one doing it exactly as they have written. You need buy in from the majority of the pilot group. Sadly, the union can't even do more than just remind the pilots to fly safely according to FM-1... as prior cases at other carriers have hamstrung them from saying more as it could be construed as inciting a labor action.
If you were around for my emails on Bird/Bug strikes and the CAT-2 fiasco, then you're probably aware the company tried to claim they were illegal job actions. Simply notifying pilots what the company did to another crew, and reminding pilots what was in our CBA was enough for the company to try to make charges of a labor action.
The company fired 3 of the past 5 NY Captain Reps when I was there for sticking up for their pilots. One was fired seven times, and two were fired twice. The company fired the DFW CA Rep within a month of me. At the time they considered us their two biggest thorns in the side. They once called the MEC office when I happened to be there threatening to fire me because I called Jerry Glass a Jackass. They wanted me to delete the posting, print an apology and consider myself lucky they didn't fire me for rule 32 since he was technically an AAG employee/contractor. I told them I wasn't deleting it, that anybody that asks me what he's like will get the same answer, and they can go to hell. They didn't fire me that time, but it would have been three times if they had.
I do know they did fire me for 4 cases of alleged sick abuse, and when I produced medical records for the absences they declined to receive the documentation, and responded "we don't need to see those, you're discharged." I was back to work about a month later.
The second and final time was them claiming I had lied about resigning from a union position. A typo of the effective had been made, and subsequently corrected, but they considered it misleading.... and they accused me of being involved in the Charlie Bucket website and facebook page which was not me. While I did have involvement with the union campaign, I did no have anything to do with those two websites. In any event, back then social media transgressions where handled by bringing the alleged offender down to HQ for the grand tour of HQ to meet-n-greet all the managers in what we jokingly called the scared straight session. Everybody else got that; I got fired..... again.
Anyway, the point is that until the RLA is modified the strength of the union at the regional levels is very limited. It isn't like United. The company can't go to a United pilot and say take these concessions or we are giving your flying to Delta. They can do that at the regionals.
I tried at the 2014 ALPA National Board of Directors meeting to get modifying the RLA commensurate with modern regional business practices to be put on to the ALPA PAC task list. That motion triggered about 3.5 hours of presentations by ALPA lawyers on why the committee should not pass my resolution to the floor. The motion failed in committee.
I did manage to get a motion to direct the PAC and Natonal to defend the 1500 hour rule passed in committee and on the floor, and the campaign you've seen from ALPA National on pilot pay and the 1500 hour rule was due to your Envoy MEC. At that same BOD meeting your Envoy MEC was able to get National to create the National level office of Regional Coordinator, and they began actively running classes, programs, meetings and job fairs to help guys get out of the regionals and onto the majors.
Anyway, back to being conciliatory..... facts speak for themselves. Anybody who has fought them hard, has lost. I do not want to see that happen to other pilots. If they can learn from me and Neal that the management at the regionals are all unethical and the system is stacked against fighting them successfully, then they can focus on getting in, getting their hours, and moving up and out as quickly as possible.
Luckily, I ended up at a great carrier, and will upgrade on the 76 soon. It doesn't always work out that way, I was lucky that a good employer took the time to look past the word "termination" and review the actual records.
I don't like it, I don't agree with it, but it is the truth. If that can help the next generation have a quicker easier time than we did, then I've done something good and positive with something negative.
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