Pros and cons
11-06-2019, 04:50 AM
#23
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by speedbrakearmed
As he said the experience varies wildly. The issues with Direct Entry Captains has been that even though they're obtaining company seniority everyday, their in seat seniority has not moved as rapidly. As FO's who are senior to them continue to upgrade, they are in this period of perpetual reserve until all eligible FO's who are senior to them upgrade. While I do understand that its not pleasant, thats how seniority works (honestly not trying to sound insensitive, I feel your pain). However to make a statement that "I would not recommend ENY to anyone." is simply unfair and unequivocally misguiding as a vast majority of people who come here are brand new FO's in where the aforementioned problem would not exist. Congrats on the new company, where ya headed off to?
11-06-2019, 04:55 AM
#24
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2019
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by speedbrakearmed
As he said the experience varies wildly. The issues with Direct Entry Captains has been that even though they're obtaining company seniority everyday, their in seat seniority has not moved as rapidly. As FO's who are senior to them continue to upgrade, they are in this period of perpetual reserve until all eligible FO's who are senior to them upgrade. While I do understand that its not pleasant, thats how seniority works (honestly not trying to sound insensitive, I feel your pain). However to make a statement that "I would not recommend ENY to anyone." is simply unfair and unequivocally misguiding as a vast majority of people who come here are brand new FO's in where the aforementioned problem would not exist. Congrats on the new company, where ya headed off to?
The underlying fact I am trying to disclose to those on the outside considering of coming here due to the marketing tactic of 'the flow' is that of the culture. No one that has any fist hand experience of ENY, and has common sense, will argue with me.
Those that interject so as to defend ENY and/or mitigate what real people are saying on here about the real issues are either management trolls or completely oblivious to how a real airline, making real efforts to progress forward in 2019, operates.
Regardless, my name is on here and I don't hide behind a discreet username. If you are currently at ENY and feel like I am way off base, by all means, look me up. I'll buy the coffee and we can chat, face to face. I welcome the debate. Who knows, we possibly can educate one another.
For those on the outside being sold the marketing goods of 'the flow', I highly encourage you to progress with due diligence and research Endeavor and SkyWest. A regional is, always has been, and always will be a regional.
11-06-2019, 06:44 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by LHSmith
I am fully aware and well-versed on seniority, it's intricacies, and functionality. This is by far and away not my first rodeo. I am drawing attention to the overall combative and abrasive AA culture.
The underlying fact I am trying to disclose to those on the outside considering of coming here due to the marketing tactic of 'the flow' is that of the culture. No one that has any fist hand experience of ENY, and has common sense, will argue with me.
Those that interject so as to defend ENY and/or mitigate what real people are saying on here about the real issues are either management trolls or completely oblivious to how a real airline, making real efforts to progress forward in 2019, operates.
Regardless, my name is on here and I don't hide behind a discreet username. If you are currently at ENY and feel like I am way off base, by all means, look me up. I'll buy the coffee and we can chat, face to face. I welcome the debate. Who knows, we possibly can educate one another.
For those on the outside being sold the marketing goods of 'the flow', I highly encourage you to progress with due diligence and research Endeavor and SkyWest. A regional is, always has been, and always will be a regional.
The underlying fact I am trying to disclose to those on the outside considering of coming here due to the marketing tactic of 'the flow' is that of the culture. No one that has any fist hand experience of ENY, and has common sense, will argue with me.
Those that interject so as to defend ENY and/or mitigate what real people are saying on here about the real issues are either management trolls or completely oblivious to how a real airline, making real efforts to progress forward in 2019, operates.
Regardless, my name is on here and I don't hide behind a discreet username. If you are currently at ENY and feel like I am way off base, by all means, look me up. I'll buy the coffee and we can chat, face to face. I welcome the debate. Who knows, we possibly can educate one another.
For those on the outside being sold the marketing goods of 'the flow', I highly encourage you to progress with due diligence and research Endeavor and SkyWest. A regional is, always has been, and always will be a regional.
I find it funny you recommend a non union carrier after your experience with comair. Also you talk about the combative and abrasive AA culture, yet Delta shut you guys down for standing up to them. Do you think they’ve changed now? What would be some examples of the AA culture you think is wildly different than other regionals?
For me, eagle has been fine. I went through the bankruptcy and the shrinking. Our pilot group and union thought we had much more power than we did, and the company smacked us into place. It sucked, but that’s capitalism, that’s what the regionals are like without a regional wide union. Regionals grow at the expense of others.
The majority of my career here has been fine. New hires have way more advantages than we had 8 years ago. These sign on bonuses, the overall pay scale, 200 percent OT, commuter hotels, the ipads with digital releases and jepps and mobile cci, training is kinder and easier.
Reserve can suck, that’s the next part of the contract that needs improvement. I wouldn’t write off the airline because of that.
The pays good, the training center is good, the movement here is fast and guaranteed. The flow is great to have in your back pocket, (I and a thousand other pilots at AA are glad to have had it). You have Exactly the same travel benefits as an AA pilot on the whole AA network.
There’s a lot to be said about being a wholly owned when it comes to job security, ala compass unfortunately. I and my class mates haven’t had any real issues with the chief pilots office, which is our management. You also do have a union, which despite the complaining we all do, means a lot, and has saved many a guy his job or gotten it back.
11-06-2019, 06:54 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by HobGoblin
What had you been doing since Comair shutdown in 2012? You have experience with Skywest and Endeavor culture and work rules to compare it to envoy? Or any other regional at all except Comair?
I find it funny you recommend a non union carrier after your experience with comair. Also you talk about the combative and abrasive AA culture, yet Delta shut you guys down for standing up to them. Do you think they’ve changed now? What would be some examples of the AA culture you think is wildly different than other regionals?
For me, eagle has been fine. I went through the bankruptcy and the shrinking. Our pilot group and union thought we had much more power than we did, and the company smacked us into place. It sucked, but that’s capitalism, that’s what the regionals are like without a regional wide union. Regionals grow at the expense of others.
The majority of my career here has been fine. New hires have way more advantages than we had 8 years ago. These sign on bonuses, the overall pay scale, 200 percent OT, commuter hotels, the ipads with digital releases and jepps and mobile cci, training is kinder and easier.
Reserve can suck, that’s the next part of the contract that needs improvement. I wouldn’t write off the airline because of that.
The pays good, the training center is good, the movement here is fast and guaranteed. The flow is great to have in your back pocket, (I and a thousand other pilots at AA are glad to have had it). You have Exactly the same travel benefits as an AA pilot on the whole AA network.
There’s a lot to be said about being a wholly owned when it comes to job security, ala compass unfortunately. I and my class mates haven’t had any real issues with the chief pilots office, which is our management. You also do have a union, which despite the complaining we all do, means a lot, and has saved many a guy his job or gotten it back.
I find it funny you recommend a non union carrier after your experience with comair. Also you talk about the combative and abrasive AA culture, yet Delta shut you guys down for standing up to them. Do you think they’ve changed now? What would be some examples of the AA culture you think is wildly different than other regionals?
For me, eagle has been fine. I went through the bankruptcy and the shrinking. Our pilot group and union thought we had much more power than we did, and the company smacked us into place. It sucked, but that’s capitalism, that’s what the regionals are like without a regional wide union. Regionals grow at the expense of others.
The majority of my career here has been fine. New hires have way more advantages than we had 8 years ago. These sign on bonuses, the overall pay scale, 200 percent OT, commuter hotels, the ipads with digital releases and jepps and mobile cci, training is kinder and easier.
Reserve can suck, that’s the next part of the contract that needs improvement. I wouldn’t write off the airline because of that.
The pays good, the training center is good, the movement here is fast and guaranteed. The flow is great to have in your back pocket, (I and a thousand other pilots at AA are glad to have had it). You have Exactly the same travel benefits as an AA pilot on the whole AA network.
There’s a lot to be said about being a wholly owned when it comes to job security, ala compass unfortunately. I and my class mates haven’t had any real issues with the chief pilots office, which is our management. You also do have a union, which despite the complaining we all do, means a lot, and has saved many a guy his job or gotten it back.
11-06-2019, 07:10 AM
#27
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2019
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by HobGoblin
What had you been doing since Comair shutdown in 2012? You have experience with Skywest and Endeavor culture and work rules to compare it to envoy? Or any other regional at all except Comair?
I find it funny you recommend a non union carrier after your experience with comair. Also you talk about the combative and abrasive AA culture, yet Delta shut you guys down for standing up to them. Do you think they’ve changed now? What would be some examples of the AA culture you think is wildly different than other regionals?
For me, eagle has been fine. I went through the bankruptcy and the shrinking. Our pilot group and union thought we had much more power than we did, and the company smacked us into place. It sucked, but that’s capitalism, that’s what the regionals are like without a regional wide union. Regionals grow at the expense of others.
The majority of my career here has been fine. New hires have way more advantages than we had 8 years ago. These sign on bonuses, the overall pay scale, 200 percent OT, commuter hotels, the ipads with digital releases and jepps and mobile cci, training is kinder and easier.
Reserve can suck, that’s the next part of the contract that needs improvement. I wouldn’t write off the airline because of that.
The pays good, the training center is good, the movement here is fast and guaranteed. The flow is great to have in your back pocket, (I and a thousand other pilots at AA are glad to have had it). You have Exactly the same travel benefits as an AA pilot on the whole AA network.
There’s a lot to be said about being a wholly owned when it comes to job security, ala compass unfortunately. I and my class mates haven’t had any real issues with the chief pilots office, which is our management. You also do have a union, which despite the complaining we all do, means a lot, and has saved many a guy his job or gotten it back.
I find it funny you recommend a non union carrier after your experience with comair. Also you talk about the combative and abrasive AA culture, yet Delta shut you guys down for standing up to them. Do you think they’ve changed now? What would be some examples of the AA culture you think is wildly different than other regionals?
For me, eagle has been fine. I went through the bankruptcy and the shrinking. Our pilot group and union thought we had much more power than we did, and the company smacked us into place. It sucked, but that’s capitalism, that’s what the regionals are like without a regional wide union. Regionals grow at the expense of others.
The majority of my career here has been fine. New hires have way more advantages than we had 8 years ago. These sign on bonuses, the overall pay scale, 200 percent OT, commuter hotels, the ipads with digital releases and jepps and mobile cci, training is kinder and easier.
Reserve can suck, that’s the next part of the contract that needs improvement. I wouldn’t write off the airline because of that.
The pays good, the training center is good, the movement here is fast and guaranteed. The flow is great to have in your back pocket, (I and a thousand other pilots at AA are glad to have had it). You have Exactly the same travel benefits as an AA pilot on the whole AA network.
There’s a lot to be said about being a wholly owned when it comes to job security, ala compass unfortunately. I and my class mates haven’t had any real issues with the chief pilots office, which is our management. You also do have a union, which despite the complaining we all do, means a lot, and has saved many a guy his job or gotten it back.
I wasn't going to go there but, since you opened that can of worms, okay - here we go. I wouldn't be so quick to enter 'macho' conversation regarding the union and their prowess (lack thereof) at ENY. I'll just leave it at that. You go get yourself an ALPA star pin and we will talk 'union talk' big boy. I'd just leave the union out of this if I were you. Unless you are one of the idiots here that touts on social media about "I want to strike" or "I can't wait to strike"; complete and total moronic thinking. Until you've been through one, you'd never realize the ramifications of such and the desire to make it an utter last resort. So don't bring up nor tell me about union substance. Again, I've got you beat there too. But hey, you're an 8 year ENY tenure (in this hiring climate), you obviously know it all.
11-06-2019, 07:32 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by LHSmith
Well, let's see. I was a Check Airmen on the DC10 and 757 for many years, for starters (If you'd like an aviation accolade measuring contest, I am more than up to your challenge and willing to bet I will prevail that contest of logbooks, type ratings, and experience). Then, I took a break from aviation to become a police officer and contribute - rather than ***** from the sidelines, since many were being slaughtered along with continuously degraded in the public eye.
I wasn't going to go there but, since you opened that can of worms, okay - here we go. I wouldn't be so quick to enter 'macho' conversation regarding the union and their prowess (lack thereof) at ENY. I'll just leave it at that. You go get yourself an ALPA star pin and we will talk 'union talk' big boy. I'd just leave the union out of this if I were you. Unless you are one of the idiots here that touts on social media about "I want to strike" or "I can't wait to strike"; complete and total moronic thinking. Until you've been through one, you'd never realize the ramifications of such and the desire to make it an utter last resort. So don't bring up nor tell me about union substance. Again, I've got you beat there too. But hey, you're an 8 year ENY tenure (in this hiring climate), you obviously know it all.
I wasn't going to go there but, since you opened that can of worms, okay - here we go. I wouldn't be so quick to enter 'macho' conversation regarding the union and their prowess (lack thereof) at ENY. I'll just leave it at that. You go get yourself an ALPA star pin and we will talk 'union talk' big boy. I'd just leave the union out of this if I were you. Unless you are one of the idiots here that touts on social media about "I want to strike" or "I can't wait to strike"; complete and total moronic thinking. Until you've been through one, you'd never realize the ramifications of such and the desire to make it an utter last resort. So don't bring up nor tell me about union substance. Again, I've got you beat there too. But hey, you're an 8 year ENY tenure (in this hiring climate), you obviously know it all.
Since your rant went off the rails there and I’m a little lost, are you saying you don’t want unions, or you think ours is so weak we might as well not have one? I was bringing it up in regards to you recommending Skywest, which has no union. You see, in my experience here I actually have seen and heard guys who got there job back thanks to the union. This has nothing to do with striking or whatever else you went off about.
I am curious to hear what your actual examples of the company culture being so negative. Can you post any substance instead of stroking yourself while attacking others?
11-06-2019, 09:20 AM
#29
New Hire
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by LHSmith
Well, let's see. I was a Check Airmen on the DC10 and 757 for many years, for starters (If you'd like an aviation accolade measuring contest, I am more than up to your challenge and willing to bet I will prevail that contest of logbooks, type ratings, and experience). Then, I took a break from aviation to become a police officer and contribute - rather than watch from the sidelines, since many were being slaughtered along with continuously degraded in the public eye.
I wasn't going to go there but, since you opened that can of worms, okay - here we go. I wouldn't be so quick to enter 'macho' conversation regarding the union and their prowess (lack thereof) at ENY. I'll just leave it at that. You go get yourself an ALPA star pin and we will talk 'union talk' big boy. I'd just leave the union out of this if I were you. Unless you are one of the idiots here that touts on social media about "I want to strike" or "I can't wait to strike"; complete and total moronic thinking. Until you've been through one, you'd never realize the ramifications of such and the desire to make it an utter last resort. So don't bring up nor tell me about union substance. Again, I've got you beat there too. But hey, you're an 8 year ENY tenure (in this hiring climate), you obviously know it all.
I wasn't going to go there but, since you opened that can of worms, okay - here we go. I wouldn't be so quick to enter 'macho' conversation regarding the union and their prowess (lack thereof) at ENY. I'll just leave it at that. You go get yourself an ALPA star pin and we will talk 'union talk' big boy. I'd just leave the union out of this if I were you. Unless you are one of the idiots here that touts on social media about "I want to strike" or "I can't wait to strike"; complete and total moronic thinking. Until you've been through one, you'd never realize the ramifications of such and the desire to make it an utter last resort. So don't bring up nor tell me about union substance. Again, I've got you beat there too. But hey, you're an 8 year ENY tenure (in this hiring climate), you obviously know it all.
11-06-2019, 10:38 AM
#30
Porco Rosso
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,522
Originally Posted by HobGoblin
For me, eagle has been fine. I went through the bankruptcy and the shrinking. Our pilot group and union thought we had much more power than we did, and the company smacked us into place. It sucked, but that’s capitalism, that’s what the regionals are like excuses excuses
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