But seriously

Remember those thousands of times people have said “don’t negotiate in public”?

Cyio

It simply doesn’t matter. They never listen anyway lol.

havick206

You mean so Envoy can then later violate the agreement and water it down in arbitration? History repeats.

NoValueAviator

I agree with not horse trading against ourselves but this company does not negotiate anyway. Publicly or privately. They just demand whatever they want and if they don't get it they operate in open violation of the CBA and pay for it 2 years down the road in arbitration or cry to AA to give away the flying. Maybe it won't always be that way. It has the whole time I've been here though. The one time they've negotiated something in the past 2 years, they did it in bad faith and they tore up the deal they signed themselves and came back asking for concessions lol

Re: the flow, I'm not as down on it as you guys. Suppose we get 20 seats or 50% of the class whichever is less (oversimplification stay w/ me), any seats beyond 40 are just street hires guys who are gonna sit on top of you your whole career. We should want AA hiring slower than they have been and it's reasonable to think we might get that.

Of course, if AA goes bk it's probably going to be renegotiated, which could be huge for us, or it could be devastating. If Envoy management gets a say, I trust them to do as much dmg to our careers as possible.

highfarfast

I have a hard time understanding how flowbacks would be something we would even discuss in the current environment. If AA is furloughing to flowback, we are furloughing to unemployment.

I've said this elsewhere, I can understand discussing it when times are so good that furloughs seem impossible... like about a month ago. Now though?

Cyio

This. This is the sad truth about the company we have tied our careers too.

In regards to the rest you are correct. They don’t negotiate they demand. The only time they pretend to is when they need something from us to help bolster something on their end and really, they already known what they will ultimately accept. It’s all an illusion.

Cujo665

No, that would have to be a pilot vote. That is such a significant change it triggers a pilot vote.

Yep

highfarfast

The point I was trying to make is that AA and APA and Envoy management can't just do it. WE would have to approve it here as would those at the other WO separately. Been seeing a few posts in various threads that seem to indicate some people think flowbacks can become a thing without our agreeing to it.

But I will say to the point your making about my choice of words:
Our MEC has shown in the past to have a significantly different view on what is a significant change. Current leadership has so far been a bit more transparent than in the past so perhaps that will be different going forward. We'll see.

rld1k

Regional lives don't matter

Cujo665

would those be the thousands who were in union positions during decades of repeated concessions and racing to the bottom?