Bid Results
 

Prelim bid results are out.

Thanks


Filler

A lot of FO slaves escaping the 145 plantation to 18 day off Key West lost days nirvana on this one.

The increase in OCL means I'm going to be on reserve forever.

Yeah, I was on reserve for over a year as an FO on the 145, while people in my class who got the 175 never actually bid a full month of reserve. Welcome to Envoy, you've been sheltered from it so far.

edit: don't dox me bro

you sound just like a miami fo lol

or DFW or ORD

y’all junior fos need to stop *****ing about it. Seniority is the name of the game.

no *****ing from this end. I know the game! Reserve times for the 145 out of anywhere except for NYC have been about a year so I was just adding to your remark. Anybody who signed up and didn’t know that ahead of time didn’t do much research before accepting that bonus (if they were hired before the bonus went away). \_•(- -)•_/

Envoy has stopped bonuses? When did that happen? How did THKooj ‘splain that one?

They stopped them a few classes after the pay raise actually went through.

The Kooj’s explanation should be golden. “Them cutting the bonus is actually a strategic way to improve the flow. You don’t need the bonus anyway... your bonus is that you’re already mainline AA!” *eyeroll* lol.

F to pay respects to the flow. :(

The FO bonuses was offset by an increase in pay. This is something we have been asking for since 2015 or 16.

The 17-21k new hire bonus is still in effect but we don’t hire anymore as far as I know

Negative ghost rider. They were doing 21k for both fleet types as of early last year and no longer giving an extra 5k from the base 17k if you took/were assigned the 145. I had a friend in the 29JUL19 class who was the beneficiary of being in the last class to get the bonus with the new pay rates in effect. Anybody who started after 29JUL19 was not awarded the new hire bonus.

The new bonus is structured different, but it was still there. I believe it was 10k day 1, and the rest after IOE.

^^ correct. I forgot they changed it to 10k first day, 8k after IOE. I’m guessing that when we do start hiring again that the pipeline will be so full of qualified applicants that we won’t offer anything. Just a guess though!

Including paid ATP-CTP? Any rumblings about that?

So forget pay but push for flow. Well flow dont happen without a newhire class at american. Sorry.

Seems to me there are 100 pilots or so that are going to get screwed by their own bonus. The company wouldn’t let them finish IOE so they don’t have to pay the bonus. Now they are in the line of fire to get furloughed because they haven’t finished training.

The union can’t negotiate furlough protection in exchange for forgoing the bonus because the bonus is outside the CBA. On the other hand, individual pilots can’t negotiate that with the company either because furloughs ARE governed by the CBA. It’s a lousy situation.

Correct, they paid for ATP/CTP before. No clue what will happen when hiring starts again. With a lot of ATP qualified pilots out on the street I wouldn’t be surprised if that was no longer included but at this point it’s all speculation.

Agreed except they aren’t in the line of fire because they haven’t finished training, they’re in the line of fire because they’re junior enough to be as are some that have finished training but have still gotten WARNs. 100% agree that it’s a lousy situation though and I believe I saw someone asking about something similar in one of the FB groups recently. I can’t imagine the stress attached with all of this especially with questions about what the union can and can not do for you.

There’s a big misnomer about what the union can and can’t do for a probationary pilot.

The union can do everything but goto arbitration for a probationary pilot. That’s it. They have every other effort and union representation as any other pilot on the list.

Believe it or not, more time is spent by the union representing probationary pilots than non probationary pilots.

Covering ATP-CTP probably will remain included everywhere, but it'll take a long time before anyone hits that point in the applicant pool.

Maybe so, maybe not. Before the reg changed, plenty of pilots got their ATP. When it
changed, very few did. When hiring begins again, it may be a discriminator. If a company has a choice between two pilots who have their hours but one has their ATP, or maybe just the CTP course, who are they going to hire first? It is, unfortunately for those wanting to get hired, no longer a pilot’s market.

Interesting to find out what will happen with the cadet program, I mean it’s going to be quite a while before they need min time pilots again.

No. Mesa is no longer offering ATP-CTP coverage. Those being interviewed for the pool must have an ATP. Mesa also requiring IFR and landing currency. I have no idea why.

I rushed to get my ATP back when they announced the rule change because I believed pilots would still be on the hook to pay for it - except instead of $3k in a light twin it was now $20k at some training center. It became a pilots market though hence airlines paying for it. After all this that’s not gonna happen though.

Remember, people used to pay for their own types during the lost decade. Now during this next one they’ll be paying for their own ATPs as well.

I think what is likely to happen is the cost of the ATP-CTP and the written, which is down to about $5K, will be back on the pilot. The ride can still be done with the type in initial training with the airline. There was a time when that’s what you needed, the ATP written. It’s just that now to take the written, you have to have the CTP completed. Also before the “CTP mills” fired up it was $20K, not $5K.

You go back far enough, before the 1500 hour rule, there were outfits that you actually paid to fly with to build your time. Mostly multi.

It’s all a function of supply and demand. Currently there is little to no demand, when the demand does pick up, there will be a large supply of pilots.

Mesa is requiring a full ATP with landing and instrument currency at this point.

Mesa is hiring?

No, but they have an applicant pool. Unless you have your ATP, you ain't in it,

I wouldn't be surprised if the university programs started graduating people from the pilot program with their ATP in the near future for this reason. Airlines would love it b/c they don't have to pay for it, and universities love it because it makes going to an overpriced 4 year aviation program only slightly less worthless and thus, more attractive for recruiting.

My community college that I graduated from just got a Level D A320 sim for their aviation program. The plan is to get an ATP-CTP class up and running. Truthfully, I’m a little jealous, but glad I’m not a student during this time.

Plus, they could charge $10K for what would traditionally be a $5K program...
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Amazing how supply and demand changes things.