New Pay Rates and Flow to AA
 

Question from an AA pilot. So the new pay rates look like a desperate attempt by management to slow the exodus of Envoy pilots to UAL/DAL/FedEx/etc. I'm curious if these new pay rates change your mind about bailing from the AA system? Are you more motivated to stay put and wait for the flow now? I know if I was in the Eagle system I would just use this as an opportunity to save more money before heading off to United or Fedex. But I'm curious what the Envoy pilot group thinks? Thanks.

This is an attempt to keep pilots from going to Spirit, Frontier, JetBlue, etc. I don't think they're expecting anyone to turn down any of the majors or legacies. They even specifically state who they're targeting with these new rates in their email.....

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Including all bonuses, a new hire pilot should expect to make 31% more than pilots at Endeavor and 10% more than pilots at leading ULCCs over the first five years.
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New Pay Rate
 

After talking this over with an Envoy buddy we agreed that the new pay rates will keep us from playing leapfrog with the LCC and ULCCs. Instead of jumping to Frontier, Spirit, etc for the type rating. I’d rather build the PIC time at Envoy. However I’m definitely not taking any bonus that will lock me into Envoy

Re.ULCC, not true. You will make more by bailing out, especially if you count the 401K and compound interest on it.

Depends on how long you plan on staying. If you’re just getting a type and then bailing after 0-3 years then it’s not worth it to go to ULCC. Long term, ULCC is still a much better bet. Upgrades are getting very long at NK and about to get worse with a merger, that’s something to consider as well.

You also need to be at NK for 6 years to be fully vested in the 15% 401k contribution.

I have my applications out everywhere. this changes nothing.

it does for newhires, it shouldnt for captains with some PIC time.

It will for some. I hope, because
this will put pressure on ULCC’s. Especially if others follow suit. Glad to see it. I made $19/hr when I started at Eagle in 2007. Times have changed for the better

maybe for some, but with close to 40 years to go I have to play the long game. regionals have always been a get in and gtfo situation - throwing money at it doesn't change that. the ulcc's will get their new contracts eventually.

I came from Envoy years ago. There are people that are older that may be on the fence to where it’s worth it to go over to AA. Christmas off, summer vacation,commuting for a while. The difference could be hundreds of pilots decide to stay envoy. I’ve been at AA 7 years and Captain now but still a long way from things like weekends. Sure I could have stayed FO but even that was just becoming a thing for me.

Absolutely agree. ULCC will get there new contacts, and for most people gtfo will still be the mindset at the regionals. I think we’ll see hesitation from some though. Should just make it easier for those who want to leave to get hired (less competition) and put pressure on ULCC to up their contracts

Stay or go ultimately depends on everyone’s individual situation. As a 5+ yr check airman with a year or more to flow you’d be insane to go almost anywhere, possibly including mainline. 400k doing guarantee is not typical even for boomer widebody captains.

Travel benefits are the same, except being able to reserve a JS. A bunch of the same overnights. Honestly, if they made the 20yr pay and the 50% premium a permanent thing, you’d have to be at AA for I believe 5-6 years before you get above the $213/hr. I bet a lot of older guys would choose to stay and become lca. Especially if they only had/wanted to fly another ten years. Yeah you’d make more money at AA in the long run, but you’d have to work weekends, holidays etc. being senior does have some benefits. Also get us that 15% 401k.

What if I told you it wasn't really a pay raise, but just an adjustment to keep up with inflation?

Then good on you guys either way, because everyone else, by your logic, has taken a massive pay cut over the past year.

He's part of the "everyone else".

“Near CA” OO FO here. may I ask:
1. New hire wait for health insurance?
2. Training pay?
3. Likelihood getting E-175 ORD? As CA.

Thanks. Congrats on the pay package…. It makes sense for me to upgrade Envoy vs OO. Or go the NK/F9 route.

A lot of the banker bux we're supposed to get are based on 5+ years on property for the 20 yr. pay which wouldn't be available to a direct entry captain. I expect OO will match the pay (really just a 10% raise over Endeavor basically, once you pare away all the special carve outs and bonuses that only some pilots can take advantage of) in their own time, they've never been one to allow a big win at a unionized carrier to go unanswered for long.

Covid delayed it two years, but we told them back in 2013-2016 that this day was on the horizon.

next comes mergers & consolidations

then bankruptcies and buyouts to grab not just equipment and routes, but staffing.

Meanwhile at APA:

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there is no reason a OO captain under 5 years shouldn't be looking at Envoy, as a direct entry CA.!! If there doing that thing.. double the pay, and flow back up..

AA W/O’s would be nuts to hire any OO, YX, or Mesa pilots. That is just robbing pilots from current “Eagle” airplanes. These folks are going to come from Endeavor & Aviate Regionals

Keep their own regional lift going and hire from outside to deplete other carriers' lift. Win - Win for AA.

This is probably the only industry I can think of where the employees who represent the brand day to day are not the clear favorite to be promoted. Just business I guess but very odd.

They will literally do anything to not issue a seniority number which would solve the problem over night.

First off there is no way the majors’ unions would go for that and that kind of deal would be a contract changer that would be no going back from.

This is a relatively short term problem. In t8 months or so things will look much different. AA recognizes the need to hang on to the regional model but the temporary nature of much of this increase is because they don’t want to destroy the model and do anything permanent to change it.

New Bonuses
 

What are the conditions for the new bonuses? Time commitment wise? Concurrent or Consecutive?

Specifically what? There are bonuses for new hires and bonuses for captains. Do you have the qualifying time to become captain? Right now Envoy still isn’t at the point they are hiring DECs. I believe all the bonuses incur a 24 month commitment.

It would be beneficial to the AA network if the WO poached pilots from oo yx or Mesa. These regional pilots operate Eagle and DAL/UA regional planes. To take a pilot flying 30-50% for Eagle to 100% would not be “nuts”.

Not saying you’re wrong but YX is jointly owned by American, Delta, and United. They are in a strange situation. If American grenades YX they are actually hurting themselves.

Or it screws delta and United more.
no one matters to aag, envoy is the prime example so yx, who cares. It's doggy eat doggy time.