Aquilotti1

I’ll go Straight to the point. I have a couple of questions regarding Envoy….

1. does Envoy operate 1,2 and 3 day trips or it’s basically only 4 days?
   
2. how long would you sit on reserve after getting hired?
3. Would it be possible to hold Miami as a base out of training? And if not which base would I be assigned out of training?
4. how many vacation days do you get starting off and by how much does it go up too every year?

thank you

ENH017

1. All the lower day off lines (11-13) are 95% 4 on, with varying amounts of days off but (almost?) never less than 2 between trips. Higher day off trips a mix of 3 and 4 days on. Highest day off lines (17+) are 1 or 2 day on trips. Often they are arranged together, though. 1on + 2on, then 3 off. etc.

Line break down ORD (80 Lines, June 2022):
11 Days off: 10 (12.5%)
12 Days off: 20 (25%)
13 Days off: 12 (15%)
14 Days off: 12 (15%)
15 Days off: 20 (25%)
16 Days off: 1
19 Days off: 2

(I know that doesn't add up to 80, but its close)

2. Approx. DOH of most junior line holder (June 2022):
DFW 175 FO Sep 2021
ORD 175 FO Oct 2021
MIA 175 FO Aug 2021

3. Last few class awards:
6/13/22: 15 DFW, 1 MIA
5/30/22: 21 DFW, 11 MIA
5/16/22: 8 DFW, 21 MIA

Moving bases:
A pilot hired in Feb 2022 was awarded MIA 175 effective Jul 2022. He came out of training in June having originally been awarded ORD 175. Base transfers are done during vacancy bids, which are offered roughly 4 times a year.

4. In December vacation is handed out based on years of service for use the following year. Pilots with less than 1 year seniority receive 1.167 days of vacation per month for amount of months served. Pilots hired on or before the 15th of a month will have that month credited towards vacation accrual.

After 1 year: 1 Week
After 2 years: 2 Weeks
After 7 years: 3 Weeks
After 14 years: 4 Weeks

dera

A little detail about the higher 15+ day off lines is that someone hired today will likely never hold them. As an FO they usually go to the guys returning from mil leave, and for CA they go to lifers. You will upgrade before you hold them as FO, and you will flow before you hold them as CA.

BurnCycle

True, however the "claims" about PBS are that it'll build better lines with shorter trips and more days off. Of course, the source of these claims should be taken into account.

dera

No, PBS does not build the pairings unless they go with Jeppesen and use their Calibrator (which they won't because it's by far the most expensive option). The pairings will stay the same, PBS simply builds the lines from those pairings. PBS is all about work rules and since those have not been negotiated yet, it is impossible to predict how it will work - apart from the fact that you'll still do 98% 4-day trips, because those are built independent of PBS.

You already see the first effect of "min day pay" - The pairings are built with more front and back end turns decreasing the number of commutable lines. No more 1-2-2-1 bliss. PBS has no effect on that.

BurnCycle

Hence my "consider where it's coming from" context. I honestly don't know much about PBS, but I do know the "promises" are usually hollow. I've heard what you've said, that it's all dependent on HOW it's implemented, and it'll take a small miracle for it to fall our way. If it costs a lot, it surely won't.

dera

A few years ago the MEC did quite a bit of homework about PBS, and went to the providers to hear their spiel.
Back then Jeppesen was the only provider that had an option for a pairing generator/optimizer, everyone else you just feed the pairings built by the current tool.
As long as JE is in charge of CS, expect nothing good to come out from that department.

Chato

It’s ok if they want to mess with QOL too , they’ll keep bleeding pilots until they get it right.

planejoe

So right now on a 4 day it’s usually

1 leg
2 legs
2 legs
1 leg?

Or did I read that wrong

pitchattitude

There are a few of those, but more likely at least a 3-2-2-1 or 1-2-2-3, but probably and 3-2-4-1 or something similar. Because of hub and spoke flying it was always an odd number on the first and last days and even number of flights in the middle. With all the AUS flights that has been changing up. The thing to remember is that you you need 72 hours in a month. IF you were to get a line that had 14 days off and 16 on, that would be four, four day trips with an average of 18 hours per trip. A flight with only six legs would require an average leg of three hours. Most flights are closer to two hours and many are an hour and change. You have to have a lot of those short legs to make an 18ish hour four day. Many sequences, especially on DFW 145, can be 5-4-4-3 or 3-4-4-5 or even the occasional 5-4-4-5. There’s a lot of short legs in the flight file. As the 145 goes away, those flights that are kept will move to the 175 and some of the longer flights move to mainline, or SKW or RPA. Either way, there will be more legs in the sequences and since the trip and duty rig means Envoy will have to pay more for a sequence to be flown, they are going to get their pound of flesh.