Junior FO Bases
 

Hello,

Which base can a junior FO expect out of training? How junior/senior is PHX for FOs?

I haven't found any tools to determine seniority by base. Currently living in PHX, have arrangements in place if commuting is necessary.

Thank you.

Isn't really easy to commute but worth it when you get to fly the big iron some day. Best of luck to you.

It’s the second most junior base behind DFW but the base is very small. More than half of the FOs here are on reserve. You won’t fly much. Slowly growing went from 12 lines in July to 27 in November with 20 planes coming to the company by the end of next year.

Anybody know if you can hold chicago fresh out of training

The bases they offer in Indoc varies depending on company need. There appears to be a big push for more pilots in Chicago right now, 3 months ago there was a push for DFW pilots. When I went through 6 months ago everyone was given Chicago.

Base bids are run about every 3 months. If you are in training after Indoc when one runs you will be allowed to put in a paper bid—which is really a form submitted on the computer that lets them process your request manually. If you have completed IOE, you submit base preferences and displacement preferences in the company’s SABRE run computer system. Chicago should be easy to get within 3 months if you don’t get it right away. Miami is the most senior base but a few FOs in training at the same time I was got Miami before finishing IOE.

Commuting for a month or two is character building! It will help you better appreciate what commuting pilots go through even if you are fortunate enough to escape commuting most of your career. Envoy offers 4 commuter hotels a month which helps.

Commuting for a year has been the norm in the past, at various airlines.

It is indeed real character building.

Just went through indoc last week. DFW, ORD, PHX all available and unlimited. MIA is senior and was not available for bidding

How long did it take from interview to orientation?

Would like to know this as well. Not going to mess with the interview if it takes months to get into a class

I got an interview date but a recruiter told me it could take 2-3 months for a class date. Hopefully someone that has gone through it recently can update us on the exact time.

I interviewed back in mid August. I heard back one week later with a CJO. Sat in ATP CTP last week and have orientation this week. That’s when they let us know our exact training date but we’re considered employees after orientation and get paid training pay. (64 hours at the hourly rate).

In the recent preliminary bid award, the most junior first officer in every base had a September 2023 hire date. That would include everyone who completed Indoc and was allowed to bid.

The most junior DFW and PHX captain had a September 2023 hire date, the most junior ORD captain had an August 2023 hire date, and the most junior MIA captain had a March 2023 hire date. Everyone with DFW, ORD, or PHX as their highest preference got their first choice.

Even though there were no posted Phoenix vacancies, all pilots who had Phoenix as their highest preference were able to hold it through backfills.

Once you start Indoc, they will try to get you through the sim in 8 weeks. Retraining E145 pilots caused a few delays but they should be done with that. The wait for IOE is generally 3 days but FOs might wait a little longer if they have CAs to push through first. FOs get 25 hours of IOE and CAs get 50 hours of IOE. I do not know what the current wait for Orientation and Indoc is.

So, you believe an interview is a waste of time and would rather have zero job offers? Or do you already have an offer elsewhere and do not feel the need for another?

Have a December 14 "onboarding" date offered/accepted but communication with the EPR people seems to take forever.

Is this "onboarding" session a 1 or 2 day deal at HQ then go back home on training pay and wait for class date ? I've been asking for a training footprint so I can give formal notice at current work but never get an answer.

Already been thru logbook review, finger printing, PRIA updates, drug test, etc... back in March but had to kick date down the road due to some elder parent issues.

Just trying to get an idea of what the potential schedule looks like but it's kinda like pulling teeth from them

Unless something has changed, half day orientation. You will get a class date during orientation. Actual class could be 2-4 weeks after that. I would read through the Envoy Questions thread.

Just wondering how long ago did they offer you the 14th onboarding date?

Back in October, they offered a November 1 date and I turned that down because I needed to be at work on that date to accept the retention bonus for the current place I fly for…. so I punted.

Getting them to answer emails or phone-calls for questions/timeline/footprint is like pulling teeth though….I’ve responded to their “what size of shirt” and what airport are you flying out of but they won’t answer my questions.

I seem to remember it was the same story back in Feb/March when I went down there for the logbook review/CJO/fingerprints/drug test….

Well dang I got kicked out of the November 1 date due to it being too full right after I left my job and never offered the December 14th date even though I was offered November 1 back in September. Any email I send regarding next date just responded to with the same answer.

I got an email from EPR this morning, "we noticed a couple of your forms are expired, please fill out and return asap...." I open them up and it's more PRIA and previous 121 flight time matrix stuff....AGAIN.....which I filled out last month......

But at least here's still life down there.... I guess. Filling stuff out and sending back tonight again.....

I dunno, this is super frustrating as I'm geeting down to the wire on when I need to give 2 weeks notice to my current company.

Any current insights about Junior FO base assignments? Recently hired and considering bidding on either MIA or DFW. I prefer MIA due to proximity to home however, I've heard that it being a more senior base, and if awarded, I may fly less and have longer upgrade times. Does anyone know the current upgrade timing and roughly how much flying new FOs can expect at either MIA or DFW? Any other advice about either base that I might want to know, how long on reserve till I could get a line, etc?

In last indoc class...All DEC's were sent to ORD and all FO's were given base of their choosing.

You will upgrade as soon as you have the hours unless there is a major downturn in the industry in the next couple years. I do think pilot hiring is slowing and attrition will likely slow a bit but the big things that affect the industry are usually unexpected like Covid.

I think it's a crapshoot whether you will get those hours faster in MIA or DFW. I have heard that MIA is seemingly understaffed and they frequently send DFW FOs to MIA to help cover the flying, therefore their reserve FOs must be flying frequently. On the other hand, the staffing projections say Miami is expected to lose 10 lines of flying over the next 5 months and DFW is supposed to gain another 13 lines of flying or so. From that perspective, you are likely to hold a line faster in DFW. I think MIA is more senior on the captain side, it would take a lot longer to hold a captain line in MIA than DFW if that matters to you.

I think you should bid the base you will be happy to live in for awhile.

Reserve and bases for DEC
 

Thanks for the info on the latest base drops for DEC. I'm wondering if PHX is realistic for a new hire DEC and, if so, how soon. Also wondering how soon one could expect a line there. Months? Years? I know this is a crystal ball question, but I'd appreciate someone's insider perspective.

The last vacancy award was the first week of January and in it the bottom 7 DECs were displaced to Phoenix captain while still in training. You will definitely be able to hold Phoenix before you are out of training.

A Phoenix DEC I know who has been at Envoy 14 months is holding a line in Phoenix because people senior to him have been bidding reserve.. When that will happen to you depends on attrition, how fast the base grows, and how many DECs come in below you. Phoenix is growing slowly, ALPA says to expect more flying out of Phoenix as flying through Austin winds down. We hope to take more Phoenix flying from SkyWest but that is up to American. Crew Planning projected 13 more lines of flying in Phoenix in June than in January.

You will be on reserve at least a year in PHX. The CA side flies more than the FO side so if you are commuting to reserve you can reasonably expect to be used half of the time or so. However, if you are sitting standby in PHX the likelihood you will be used is extremely slim, since we only have 13 flights a day and there’s about 7 flights per standby shift. DFW you can expect to be used almost every day on reserve or on standby. We were projected to be at 30 lines for February but there was only 24 in our bid packet. The pattern I’ve seen is that crew planning overestimates the number of lines for PHX every month so while yes this base is growing, it is at a very incremental place. The company as a whole is overstaffed to the point where they offer zero time and part time lines (half of the month is unpaid leave) every month. It will get better, however, as our fleet is supposed to grow 15% by the end of the year which is not an insignificant number.

Thanks Ravenwing and V2
 

Much appreciated intel. I like the methodical approach.

new fo... starting orientation march 7 in dallas. living in vegas currently. was hoping to find out any info on available bases. ideally trying to fly out of phoenix.

My orientation was 12/14; all FOs have recently been getting their base of choice. Upgrade as soon as you get 1,000 hours 121 and Phoenix is Junior for Captains too. They recently put out a TDY for PHX Captain. Congrats and hope this helps, I from Las Vegas too but live in DFW.