Envoy's future
07-13-2014 | 10:03 AM
#2171
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Joined: Jun 2014
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Yes please. It was killed long ago. And we don't need to know that the CEO was spotted taking a leak or that announcement is coming soon, or a month ago.
07-13-2014 | 10:12 AM
#2172
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Joined: Aug 2013
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You are looking at it completely wrong. They were sold a crappy contract in the late 90's while being told they'd all be at AA within a couple of years. Sound familiar? They waited 13. If it had not been for 9-11 the AE-Envoy contract would have been the laughing stock of the industry. In fact, the flow stopped BEFORE 9-11 when AMR began buying other airlines.
07-13-2014 | 10:16 AM
#2173
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,168
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From: Reclined
Endeavor and Eagle were in bankruptcy and got forced to take bad deals. You guys did it voluntarily. Don't come over to their thread spreading your warped sense of reality. 70% of these guys have proven themselves to be fighters. Come back when you can say the same.
07-13-2014 | 10:21 AM
#2174
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Joined: May 2014
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Ha, one of the biggest problems the six have is how to deal with the blowback they'll get from your pilots when they see the deal Envoy may be ending up with. Yes, it already IS that much better, and it hasn't even reached the actual drafting stage yet.
Endeavor and Eagle were in bankruptcy and got forced to take bad deals. You guys did it voluntarily. Don't come over to their thread spreading your warped sense of reality. 70% of these guys have proven themselves to be fighters. Come back when you can say the same.
Endeavor and Eagle were in bankruptcy and got forced to take bad deals. You guys did it voluntarily. Don't come over to their thread spreading your warped sense of reality. 70% of these guys have proven themselves to be fighters. Come back when you can say the same.
07-13-2014 | 10:26 AM
#2175
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,168
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From: Reclined
You only asked how it turned out for them and implied it was bad. And it was not, just answering your question. You also said what good are numbers if a bomb went off. Well, it would probably work out like it did last time. Waiting it out and flow at the beginning of the next hiring wave while none of the other regional contract will improve, like youve pointed out, due to the catastrophe. So it will work out good.
Try Losing 13 years of mainline pay, seniority, benefits, retirement contributions AFTER accepting a crappy deal with promises of flowing in 2-4 years. Further, you are looking at the wrong group. Ask the FOs who supported that contract so they'd upgrade quicker and instead spent 11 years in the right seat. You're saying a few hundred numbers guys going over 13 years later was a good trade for the 1600 guys who stayed in the right seat on a concessionary contract.
07-13-2014 | 10:27 AM
#2176
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Reclined
There is an idea of what it will look like, it has not been finalized or even put in writing. So there is no deal... Yet.
Last edited by Mason32; 07-13-2014 at 10:45 AM.
07-13-2014 | 10:29 AM
#2177
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,564
Likes: 24
Wow, If ever there were an example of looking at things through rose colored glasses.
Try Losing 13 years of mainline pay, seniority, benefits, retirement contributions AFTER accepting a crappy deal with promises of flowing in 2-4 years. Further, you are looking at the wrong group. Ask the FOs who supported that contract so they'd upgrade quicker and instead spent 11 years in the right seat. You're saying a few hundred numbers guys going over 13 years later was a good trade for the 1600 guys who stayed in the right seat on a concessionary contract.
Try Losing 13 years of mainline pay, seniority, benefits, retirement contributions AFTER accepting a crappy deal with promises of flowing in 2-4 years. Further, you are looking at the wrong group. Ask the FOs who supported that contract so they'd upgrade quicker and instead spent 11 years in the right seat. You're saying a few hundred numbers guys going over 13 years later was a good trade for the 1600 guys who stayed in the right seat on a concessionary contract.
07-13-2014 | 10:30 AM
#2178
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 584
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In fairness nobody could have predicted what was to happen September 11 2001 or circa 2007-2008 looking back at it though we now know that anything can happen and a decent contract is more valuable than flow.
07-13-2014 | 10:32 AM
#2179
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,809
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From: Left
Ha, one of the biggest problems the six have is how to deal with the blowback they'll get from your pilots when they see the deal Envoy may be ending up with. Yes, it already IS that much better, and it hasn't even reached the actual drafting stage yet.
Endeavor and Eagle were in bankruptcy and got forced to take bad deals. You guys did it voluntarily. Don't come over to their thread spreading your warped sense of reality. 70% of these guys have proven themselves to be fighters. Come back when you can say the same.
Endeavor and Eagle were in bankruptcy and got forced to take bad deals. You guys did it voluntarily. Don't come over to their thread spreading your warped sense of reality. 70% of these guys have proven themselves to be fighters. Come back when you can say the same.
I also did spread my sense of anything, or mention anything about our deal or PSA at all.
Me working at PSA doesn't preclude me from having a normal conversation.
I'm sure eagle's deal is great, and that IS great, but it WILL have a downside or there would be no talks in the first place.
07-13-2014 | 10:32 AM
#2180
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,114
Likes: 0
Ha, one of the biggest problems the six have is how to deal with the blowback they'll get from your pilots when they see the deal Envoy may be ending up with. Yes, it already IS that much better, and it hasn't even reached the actual drafting stage yet.
Endeavor and Eagle were in bankruptcy and got forced to take bad deals. You guys did it voluntarily. Don't come over to their thread spreading your warped sense of reality. 70% of these guys have proven themselves to be fighters. Come back when you can say the same.
Endeavor and Eagle were in bankruptcy and got forced to take bad deals. You guys did it voluntarily. Don't come over to their thread spreading your warped sense of reality. 70% of these guys have proven themselves to be fighters. Come back when you can say the same.
Your hard on for Envoy is astonishing... Guess what I certainly hope PDT gains planes and survives much like I did PSA. As a legacy AA pilot you sure hope these wholly owns keep them too.... For non rev, jumpseating and other reasons in which we as AA pilots benefit from a wholly own doing a route over a contract feeder....
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