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fisherman 01-29-2016 12:06 PM


Originally Posted by Skyvector (Post 2058512)
This is why so many on eagle lounge are up in arms. Misunderstanding the contract. I don't blame you...this is a failure on the part of our association.

I'll try to explain as best I can:

We get 50% of each AA class metered to 30. Not 50% period. What does that mean in practice?

Example #1: AA hires 100 pilots in a month. Envoy gets 50% which is 50. If the company wants to meter they can do so down to 30 and no less.

Example #2: AA hires 50 pilots in a month. Envoy gets 50% which is 25. Since 25 is less than 30 the company couldn't meter even if they wanted to. All 25 would have to go.

So what's happening next month? AA is hiring 70, which gives Envoy up to 35 flows. BUT, per our contract the company can meter down to 30 and that is what they are doing. They don't have to have a good reason to do so, they can because our contract has that clause.

On the bright side, that clause means that the company has to send minimum of 30. They can't send only 5 and claim it's because of staffing issues. That would be much worse, wouldn't it? Can you imagine the fit people would be throwing if we only flowed 5 next month, 10 the month after that, then 5 again, and so on. At least that clause makes the company send no less than 30, which in a year with no hiring gaps due to recalls is 360/year.

Also, consider the following: The metered to 30 clause is ONLY for the 824 group. The Protected Pilot group gets 50% flow (after the 40th E175) with no metered to 30 clause. That means that once the PP group starts to flow, and AA hires 70 like they are doing now we will have to flow 35. They won't be able to meter down to 30. The 824 are due to finish flowing in early 2017 and the 40th E175 should be on property by then if not sooner. So yes, expect 360+ flows for 2017 and beyond. The recalls will all have come back by this summer as well so there will be no more hiring gaps either.

I know that as a recruiter you want to drink the free Kool-Aid, but you are simply mistaken. The company cannot just arbitrarily meter to below 50% whenever they feel like it. The contract and arbitrator's award state "metering" below 50% is only allowed to prevent disruption to Envoy's operation. Additionally, future flow-throughs must accelerate to catch up to the 50% ratio. As evidenced by our part-time/zero time/below-guarantee lines, Envoy can clearly send the full 50% without disrupting the operation; therefore metering to less than 50% in February 2016 would be a violation of the CBA and the arbitrator's award.

Like you, I want Envoy to succeed, but I refuse to cover for the company's violations of the contract.

Also, you are mistaken on the Protect Pilot flow. For Protected Pilots, before the 40th 175, it is 35% or metered to 25 pilots monthly. After the 40th 175, it increases to 50% or metered to 25 pilots monthly.

RyanP 01-29-2016 12:36 PM


Originally Posted by fisherman (Post 2058569)
I The company cannot just arbitrarily meter to below 50% whenever they feel like it. The contract and arbitrator's award state "metering" below 50% is only allowed to prevent disruption to Envoy's operation. Additionally, future flow-throughs must accelerate to catch up to the 50% ratio. As evidenced by our part-time/zero time/below-guarantee lines, Envoy can clearly send the full 50% without disrupting the operation; therefore metering to less than 50% in February 2016 would be a violation of the CBA and the arbitrator's award.

.

Don't forget the nearly 600 pilots on Reserve as well.

We have enough excess staffing to choke a donkey. No legal reason for this.

Eaglepilot84 01-29-2016 12:47 PM


Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 2058555)
The earth has tipped over as I actually agree with FlameNSky. The withholding of a simple 5 pilots/month sends a 4th of July skyrocket airborne to majestically demonstrate to both potential and present Envoy pilots that nothing said or promised at any given time is valid and that those who are at Envoy can expect to be short-changed.

Violation of contract or not (which seems to be in dispute), it belies the promises they make are virtually certain to be broken.

100% right. As I've said before, I don't really care about if we get new pilots or not. AAG has it's mind made up about what they want to do with us. Our performance and recruitment numbers can be through the roof and it won't matter. I'd rather save a new pilot the constant heartache of being let down and advise them to look elsewhere.

ORDinary 01-29-2016 06:48 PM


Originally Posted by Skyvector (Post 2058373)
Read the contract again. It's 50% metered to 30. If they want to meter to 30 they can and they don't have to have a good reason to do so. The overstaffed argument is fine, and should be made. But contractually they are doing nothing wrong. For much of 2015 100% of AA classes were Envoy flows. So it's not like they are trying to pick on anyone..but if playing victim makes you feel better then by all means...

So to you "operational necessity" = "if they want". I respectfully disagree. I'm not saying they won't get away with it, I'm saying that I believe it fails to meet the letter and spirit of the contract.

Did you think your insults would convince us we're wrong? Does that ever work for you?

Ar Pilot 01-30-2016 04:05 PM


Originally Posted by fisherman (Post 2058569)
I know that as a recruiter you want to drink the free Kool-Aid, but you are simply mistaken. The company cannot just arbitrarily meter to below 50% whenever they feel like it. The contract and arbitrator's award state "metering" below 50% is only allowed to prevent disruption to Envoy's operation. Additionally, future flow-throughs must accelerate to catch up to the 50% ratio. As evidenced by our part-time/zero time/below-guarantee lines, Envoy can clearly send the full 50% without disrupting the operation; therefore metering to less than 50% in February 2016 would be a violation of the CBA and the arbitrator's award.

Like you, I want Envoy to succeed, but I refuse to cover for the company's violations of the contract.

Also, you are mistaken on the Protect Pilot flow. For Protected Pilots, before the 40th 175, it is 35% or metered to 25 pilots monthly. After the 40th 175, it increases to 50% or metered to 25 pilots monthly.

Do you really think AAG is not capable of coming up with anything they want as an excuse for "disrupting" the operation to meter to only 30? Evidence by what they just did..

ORDinary 01-30-2016 06:09 PM


Originally Posted by Ar Pilot (Post 2059496)
Do you really think AAG is not capable of coming up with anything they want as an excuse for "disrupting" the operation to meter to only 30? Evidence by what they just did..

Of course we know they are capable of that. Do you really think we are going to keep quiet about it?


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